towing in 5 gear

[smokie]

I just got a small 14 foot caravan about 800kgs with i whant to tow behinde my 04 hilux 3ldt I was told by the caravan yard not to tow in 5 gear because the box will not take it is this true

[Patrolman Pat]

Most people I know who tow don't recommend towing in 5th gear regardless of vehicle. Nissan had problems with 5th gear which was worse on vehicles that towed. Those that do use 5th tend to do so only when cruising along flat roads with little load on the engine.

[dhula]

Not sure on the lux, but have been told by many vanners of probs when towing in 5th (overdrive)

One I remember was in a HJ60 when crusin at 85-90 kms with no more than 1 ton on the back and the gear box jumped from 5th to rev without warning
You can just imagine the damage that caused.

Now on the other side of the argument, I towed a Camp-o-matic behid a Defender with 300TDI and R380 gearbox (reportedly not the strongest in the world) from Melbourne to arnhem land using 5th all the way even to putt through towns and in the bush on good dirt roads at 70 kph
I never had a problem.

Ask Toyotasan and see what they have to say about it.

;D

[luxa]

5th gear is apparently a small gear, smaller bearing and not real flash for towing.

I hardly tow & 5th gear bearing was the first thing to go in my hilux!!!!!!

Luxa

[UhhOhh]

You can tow in 5th it's just advisable you tow in 4th. 5th is a smaller gear more stress with increased load. 4th gear is nearly always a 1:1 ratio straight through the box and a much stronger gear which is why they recommend it.

[babylux]

You shouldnt tow in 5th in a hilux very small gears and sncryo

[HDJ105]

Personally it depends on the gearbox design, and the way you drive. You should have the R151F gearbox, but I haven't seen inside of one to see where 5th is located.

Trouble comes from the original design, most of the earlier 5 speeds were a 4 speed which they had tacked 5th onto the rear, outside of the main case (eg. 5 speed in 40/55/60/75 seres Toyotas), definately not as strong as having 5th inside the main case (eg. 80/100 series H series boxes).

I'd still use 5th, as I'm sure towing the 800kg load it will be fine. Use 5th on the flat and downhill, don't labour the engine in 5th going up rises, go back to 4th. Don't lug in 5th at lower speeds eg. <80km/h.

As it's a 2004 it's still under wty, read your owners manual as well and see what it says. Also give consideration to changing the gearbox oil more often if doing a lot of towing, and if towing in high ambient temps a synthetic oil will give you better protection.

[crusher]

I tow the camper trailer behind the GU in 5th gear (obviously on the flat open roads like freeway, highway etc).

Fully loaded, trailer would probably weigh close to a tonne

So far no probs

[big ben]

towed 20.000 klm GQ+trailer=4000kgs. gearbox- no problems. GQ+lpg+petrol+wallet=problem ;)

[Bushbasher]

You can tow in 5th it's just advisable you tow in 4th. 5th is a smaller gear more stress with increased load. 4th gear is nearly always a 1:1 ratio straight through the box and a much stronger gear which is why they recommend it.


4th gear, or 1:1 ratio in all gearboxes I've ever rebuilt has a sliding dog clutch/synchro that simply connects the input shaft to the output shaft and the drive goes straight through the box and minimises the stresses throughout it.

[adamsrockingrocky]

I've seen a toyota steel case 5 speed chew out 5'th gear from driving into a stong head wind in a van. But old style box with 5'th out the back with rev

[VinVIn]

My mate just blew 5th gear towing a small trailer home on the highway ... he wont do it again

[HDJ105]

My mate just blew 5th gear towing a small trailer home on the highway ... he wont do it again


Well that's a weath of information there...

Was he driving a 2004 TD Hilux and 800kg load? Or would you like to tell us the details?

[Bundy_Harry]

It comes down to gearbox design

take a sweet little box like the G52 nice to drive but not real strong. think of the gears oinside this box as clusters 1st and 2nd on one solid cluster 3rd and 4th on another solid cluster.
5th sits off to the side on a "half" cluster when stressed up with heavy load or shock the bearings supporting this half cluster can and do fail regularly, the cluster can fall out of alignment and 5th is lost, usually a rebuild is required to fix.

Not all gear boxes are constructed like this, clusters are still present in all other types of manual transmissions however there locations may differ. For exmaple in the Toyota H150 series of gearboxes the 5th cluster is full length and located in the centre of the transmission between the first to clusters. This box is very strong and it is more likely than than a G52 to cope with shocks and loads in 5th gear.

I can only speak from experience about those Toyota boxes that I know and have worked on in the past. Other boxes such as Nissans are likely to be the same but as I have not worked on them I will refrain from making comment.

The above details is a good guide. My advice to anyone is research your facts, listen to others and form your own opinions

Cheers
Bundy_Harry

[mudpiggy]

I have towed a boat with the lux many times and used 5th gear but never where there is any strain on the gearbox. As soon as i hit a slight hill its straight in to 4th for me.....you may or may not blow the box but i wouldn't like to see you try it.......just easy in 5th thats all........

[crusin in hiluxury]

hi guys sorry to barge in on this thread but i am going to buy a small 12 ft tinny. Will i be able to tow this in 5th on flat roads and then change to 4th whan i hit a hill? as i will be doing a 7hr drive soon towing the tinny and i dont want to do the whole trip in 4th.
thanks
SR5 Hilux

[luxa]

hi guys sorry to barge in on this thread but i am going to buy a small 12 ft tinny. Will i be able to tow this in 5th on flat roads and then change to 4th whan i hit a hill? as i will be doing a 7hr drive soon towing the tinny and i dont want to do the whole trip in 4th.
thanks
SR5 Hilux


Yes,

I've towed a number of boats behing my 2.8L - the worst being a 4.5m Half cab (about 1000kg total). 5th on the flat / down hill but most in 4th (and 3rd, and 2nd.... - Latrobe Valley to Mallacoota).

The 13' tinny I tow has never caused to many problems.

If you worried drop it round - I'll tow it ;D

Luxa

[Stevencc182]

I have a 99 GU 4.2lt diesel trayback , (non turbo)
What sort of problems would you see for that, do those modals have any problems with the gear box or not,

[lightforce]

Never tow on 5th gear on old cruisers, mine snapped on my when towing a caravan at a 100km up a hill. Big mistake, almost leveled an oncoming car.

[CHICKIGQ]

look at the taco and deide if yoy are revin the ring out then change up i towed caravan at 120 in gq turbo in high head winds up the hume for my boos no probs drank a bit but not on my dollar............ sorry 110 hhee

[Pmc]

i regularly tow this 3.5 t climbing wall around Perth and western Australia

100

i regularly two it with 5th gear when i can.

but i have had that problem with my last 4wd i got rip if it after this.
we went on a holiday driving east when 60 kms out of Norseman i lost 5th gear in our Misti 4X4 L300 van towing a 1t camper van.
we eventually pulled in to town with only 2nd and reveres left.
it too Misti one week to sen a new gearbox to Norseman even though its on the nullabor.
hence the trip wasn't finish and we turned around and went back to Perth.

[crawla]

G'day Smokie, personally I would not use 5th, there is obviously heaps of unhappy endings for some who have towed in 5th and I wouldn't like to risk wreckin' my box even though some may get away with it. I was talking to Greg Jones who is the owner of Brunswick Diesel a couple of months back and he was telling me about a box he plans on putting in his fourby eventually. He said it's strong and....... 'you can tow in 5th without a drama'. It's a truck gearbox......enough said.

[4 play]

I think as much as its got to do with gearbox design, its got as much again to do with diving style.Dont drive up hills towing in 5th, dont lug the engine while towing in 5 th.Do drop back to 4th as soon as you start to climb a hill and leave it in 4th while cruising around at lower revs.
I have driven a few vehicles that were ment to have weak gearboxes while towing my camper trailer and have never had a problem.I am very careful about when to leave it in 5th or change back to 4th.If and when I do/did have a problem I will fit a h series box to our cruiser.

[Grimsey]

you will finf you will get better economy towing in 4th if its a really heavey load. my dads V8 100 series gets about 4L per 100km better. however thats towing 3.5ton.

[crawla]

you will finf you will get better economy towing in 4th if its a really heavey load. my dads V8 100 series gets about 4L per 100km better. however thats towing 3.5ton.

I think your figures are out a bit there Grimsey (4 litres to the 100)

[Jarrod.]

I think your figures are out a bit there Grimsey (4 litres to the 100)
he says 4l to 100km better. which i think means he is using 4l less every 100k's in 4th instead of 5th

[crawla]

Ah.....so when he tows 3.5 ton in fourth gear he saves 4 litres every 100km compared to towing in 5th.....makes sense now......cheers Navara Man.

[nqgu]

It is a known problem with the Mitsu boxes. Nissan Patrol also. Don't tow in 5th if you can avoid it.

[Lumberjack]

I've got a 98 Hilux, 3ltr diesel and regularly tow my 9x5 tandem trailer with 2 tonne of wood in 5th, with no problems. Like everyone else has said tho, pick the right gear and time to use it and you wont have a problem. Also should add, I'm not doing real big trips either, no more than 30k's at a time.

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Yeah Lumberjack, but how many k's have you done towing like that?? It takes some time for this sort of problem to show up, BUT you ALMOST CERTAINLY WILL BE CONTRIBUTING to the early demise of the gearbox!! If you plan on selling the thing before it does the next 100,000 km, then it shouldn't be an issue, unless you got it second hand at 80,000 and the previous owner did the same thing, hoping to off-load it before it died!! (and it WILL!!)

Any load above that of the vehicle at normal load will be stressing the gearbox and causing tiny amounts of cumulative and irreversible damage!! It's just a matter of time and km's towing that way!! You going to keep on taking the chance, or are you just going to off-load before it does detonate??

[Lumberjack]

Well call me lucky then cause this is the 4th ute I've had, done over 100,000k's in 2 of them and nearly 90,000 in this one and have never done a diff or a gearbox yet. Like I said earlier, I dont go very far and pick my spot to use 5th. Now because I've said all this, watch me drive out the gate and drop the tailshaft or something:D :D :D .

[GaryW]

Sorry to butt in on this but I have a question along the same lines

I am towing a 16-17ft van with a 2003 automatic Pathfinder.

Is it OK to tow this van with overdrive on or should it be turned off??

[trity]

my mate had a mitsuibishi pajero (still does) but he was towing a small tinnie (very light) and blew 5th clean off

say all ya want about mitsubishis but besides this problem its an A1 vehicle

[Zoran]

Again everyone on landies 5th gear is built external for the GB and it has to be thought off as an add on rather than an integrated part of the GB.

[Kransky]

it should be fine on flat ground as long as you are not labouring the motor, but 99% of 4wds will die up the ar*e on the slightest hill towing a load so you would have to drop to a lower gear anyways.

[Auspwr]

was talking about this issue the other day with a mate..
u should hardly ever try to tow in 5th as this will lead to the wearing down on this gear..and in the future if kept getting used under load will be very hard to get into where when u release the clutch the gear won't inguage right and slip.
you know that feeling when you think you have the gear in but its not then she grinds her tits off...yeah

but if you don't mind pulling out a gearbox haha go for it..wouldn't try it with a patrol they are nice to get out. arb won't touch them even

[steelo]

You should look in your user manual to clear things up but I just did a 6000klm trip with fully laden box trailer & 6 people in my xploder 5spd auto & had no probs on flat or slightly sloping ground. I got out of overdrive when I came to towns & steeper country, mainly to save on fuel as it stops a lot of the up/down shifting

[Z()LTAN]

Im a Heavy Diesel Mechanic, and i know this... Towing in 5th is a big no no, for those who havnt seen inside a manual box, the 5th gear is very small, thus can take next to no extra weight, (weight other than the car), same as when in 4wd, never use 5th.

[nqgu]

You should look in your user manual to clear things up but I just did a 6000klm trip with fully laden box trailer & 6 people in my xploder 5spd auto & had no probs on flat or slightly sloping ground. I got out of overdrive when I came to towns & steeper country, mainly to save on fuel as it stops a lot of the up/down shifting

Auto transmission is completely different to manual. The internals of an auto operating in overdrive can handle quite a load (mechanically) if not hydraulically (heat etc). A manual 5th is weak as.

[Redback]

I tow in 5th all the time and with 130,000ks on the clock so far it's fine, i feel as long as you don't labour the box (ie) (hold 5th up hills as long as you can) rather than going back to 4th as soon as it starts to die, then i can't see a problem.

My camper is around 1.3t and we tow 95% of the time when touring or weekend trips, touch wood it will be OK.

Baz.

[BMKal]

I used to have a Hi-Ace diesel van set up as Pilot Vehicle (excorting wide loads). After blowing the cluster gear in two gearboxes in a 6 month period, I learnt never to use 5th gear with the sign up on the roof. I would take that lesson to towing - especially given the similarities between Hi-Ace and Hi-Lux gearboxes. On the other hand, regularly tow camper trailer weighing nearly 850kg loaded behind TD5 Disco using 5th with no problems.

[Corindi]

I don't have to worry about going up hill in my 2.8 non turbo hilux, towing in 5th because it is flat out doing it in 3rd.

[danbbode87]

so ould a 6 speed manual be good for towing as it would have 5th and 6th in a solid cluster?

[campdog]

I dont think the problem is towing in 5th gear but knowing when to change back a gear. I find that when the revs start to drop in mt 4.2 turbo diesel Gq I change back a gear and keep the revs up until I can change back to 5th.
Laboring the motor and gearbox is where the problem is.

[KRUZIN]

yeah its not so much horsepower into the box as torque.

loading up the motor , eg climbing a hill in 5th ,

puts a lot of torque thru the box.

this is what kills 5th gear

[cambo-84]

i know a bloke who tows a goose neck trailer for horses with a turbo 75 series. He towed in fifth until the gearbox self destructed one day. eveyone i have talked to recommends towing in fourth and like what luxa said it's a smaller gear and can't take as much abuse.

[Flywest]

Have a 93 triton 2.5 TD ute we've owned since new!
Blown 3 boxes in a row - towing a boat & trailer in 5th.
Had a sticker made up for the dash so I wouldn't forget again!
It says:-

Don't tow in 5th thickhead!

Your welcome to borrow the phrase - I may have invented it but i don't own the patent on it bye the looks!

I had a 2nd matching triton ute, with a 5 speed box when running our timber business, and managed to blow up that gearbox as well!
Did that retreiving the boat up a concrete ramp where the trailer wheels dropped over the back square edge of the ramp into a hole where folks eroded the sand driving their boats on under power, the propwash would scour the end of the ramp!
You had no choice on low tide but to back in that far, to get the depth to retrieve your boat!

Pulling out with the boat on, I dropped her into 4 low to get a better ratio - to pull the trailer wheels up the verticle concrete face of the end of the ramp, what i didn't do was lock the front wheels in to assist with traction...and again collapsed a bearing in the box!
The bearing that fails is a pin roller bearing!
The pins crush into a metal paste!

Bitsamissings are famous for it!

The last time it was repaired the guy took the box apart and machined a bigger diameter recess into the alloy housing where the pin roiller bearing sits and replaced the pin roller bearing with a larger/heavier stronger ball race type bearing.

Never had a problem since, and the bitsamissing has some 400,000 km's on it now- but that may be because - i got rid of the boat and no longer tow it or it could be because i wouldn't tow in 5th anymore anyway!

Whatever....just don't tow in 5th, @ $3 grand a pop and having done 4 boxes all up - I can tell you - it aint worth it!

Cheers!

[corhijas]

i tow with triton a jayco camper that weighs 11ookg's loaded plus what is in the ute and have never had a problem with using 5th,as already mentioned when a steep hill or the vehicle is under a constant load i drop back to 4th gear,i cruise at 100kph in 5th no probs and have also had it at 110 and 120 and have'nt had a problem as yet,touch wood.

[BIGDAVET86]

So what about when the tray of my ute is loaded up but im not towing a trailer, should i not use 5th? It seems stupid, why put 5th gear on a patrol ute if you cant use it when its towing a bit of extra weight around, thats what it is meant to be designed for. I have driven at least 30 000km with 600+kg on the back plus fuel, so how is that any different to towing 600+kg on a trailer.
Its a N/A TD42 so obviosly i can hold it in 5th up steep hills so I kick it back to 4th so i dont hold up the traffic too much.

Cheers
Dave

[Flywest]

Dave
As I understand it, the 4.2 nissan driveline (engine gearbox & diffs) are out of a Nissan UD truck and basically are bullet proof indestructable!

I wouldn't be surprised if you can pull Ayers Rock to Tasmania with that thing in 5th and probably get away with it!

TRhat said - for most of the new breed of light trucks commercials that are diesels and 4 cylinders - they have lightweight boxes and diffs and really arent up to the rigours of towing in 5th!

I don't think you can throw the 6 Cyl 4.2 litre Deisel nissan driveline into that same group of vehicles for a comparison!

The same cannot be said however for the 4 cyl 3 litre nissans - which basically are a light commercial with a heavey body on it and will eat engines and drivelines like fairy cakes at a kindy party if you tow in 5th!

Lots of Grey Nomands have learned the hardway towing Vans around Oz that the new 3.0 litre pootrols aren't a patch on their 6 cylinder 4.2 bretherin!

Those 6 cyl Manual diesel 4.2's will likely remain highly sought vehicles for some time to come in the second hand market as a result!

Just a case of comparing apples with apples, and ytour driving an orange, I think you'll probably be OK!

Cheers!

[saltyqld]

what if the load is small?

will it be alright, i never knew about this and always tow my jet ski in 5th

cheers :)

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

The major issue is that originally, the 5th gearset was not any bigger than the rest, and there was a spacer on the main shaft to put it in the right place. Remember that the smaller UD trucks don't use 5th for load hauling either, their final drive is such that it is really only a very flat now wind thing, and as soon as there is the slightest load they MUST change down to keep driving. In the Patrol's where the engine and power to weight ratio is isgnificantly more useable, putting all the torque thru that 'little' (relatively) gearset wore out the spacer, allowing the gear set to move over time, and eventually the movement either flogged out the mainshaft bearings or disengaged the teeth enough that teeth shattered and stripped. The 'FIX' that is in all new gearboxes and is the only replacement part available is a larger (wider) set of gears without the spacer, so there is only potential for movement along the teeth, not in a disengagement direction.

That means that there is significantly less likelihood of wearing the 5th gear set in such a manner that it will self destruct, but it is always a posibility when you consider the vastly higher torque loads that the Patrols will put thru the gearset! So while Nissan tell you that you still shouldn't 'tow' in 5th gear, they are just covering their backs (wouldn't you?) It's a decision that you hafta make tho'; tow light loads in 5th and run the (greatly lessended) risk, or just try and avoid it!

I frequently tow trailers of various sizes to Sydney or the East Coast, and if it's big enough to slow the vehicle down in 5th gear, I keep out of it! If the trailer and load doesn't slow the rig much or noticeably, I run the risk!! BUT, I've had one gearbox failure, the 12 y/o Patrol that had only 50,000 km on the clock when I picked it up had only ever been used to tow a boat or a caravan on the family's who were then the owners holidays, probly less than 1/2 of those 50,000 km. I put on another 100,000 km in the next year or so, and did NOT tow in 5th gear AT ALL, but the damage had been done and was just slowly wearing away. Eventually it started making a noise, and an oil analysis showed metal traces from the bearings, the synchro cones, and the mainshaft/gearset. So when it all came out, I had all that replaced with the biggest and bestest stuff that would go in, and I checked it all out during every phase of the project. It is now as close to absolutely bullet proof that you will ever be able to get in a gearbox (and clutch) and I STILL DON'T TOW heavy loads in 5th gear!!

Over to you all to make up your own minds about the little 6x4 trailers, the Jet Ski's, or even carrying the load on the tray of the cab-chassis! I would be very concientious NOT TO unless you KNOW you've got the bigger gearset, and if you have, be very careful and selective, watch the terrain, think about the torque load, and take it easy on 5th gear just to be on the safe side!

BTW, any towing you do now in 5th gear in vehicles before the fix (or non fixed vehicles) is going to be damaging, and it's going to be cumulative! AND while you might get away with it now, you've just done the damage, and it won't go away, but it will come back and bite you (or the next owner) eventually!! Not a great thing to risk, is it!! About $6,000 for a full re-build if you don't catch it before total failure!! So I'd be looking after it.

[saltyqld]

damn, hope it hasnt stuffed the roza gearbox to much, it never seems to struggle but, always tows it pretty normally

great info pete :)

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Hey salty, just like (almost) any other gearbox, the Feroza G/box has a 5th gear that is basically a bolted on overdrive unit! Yeah, some are now built in and integral to the main casing, but they can mainly be identified as an afterthought if you look carefully. Although some of the latest 6 speeders don't look/work quite the same way??!! Anyhow, the point is that the 5th gear isn't ever going to be as strong as 4th, the 1:1 ratio or the straight thru gear! All the lower gears are made big and heavy to capably manage the torque that is being passed thru them, but 5th is usually made as a smaller lighter gear 'cos it doesn't expect too much in the way of torque!

A good thing about the Feroza is that once in 5th gear, it is pretty much NOT ABLE to put too much torque thru 5th cos of the relationship between engine revs, torque & power, and road speed! So while you shouldn't make a practice of towing for long distances in 5th gear even in a Feroza, in practice you'll find that the outfit manages this fairly well all on its lonesome!! If the load is big enough to make any difference, the engine can't drive the rear wheels fast or hard enough to maintain a damaging speed/load in/on 5th gear!

So unless you've towed 1.5 tonne across the Nullabor behind the Feroza, then you should be fairly confident that it's surviving! That is, unless you've managed to get that 2.8 intercooled Turbo Diesel fitted under the bonnet!! They CAN keep going at gearbox punishing speeds/loads for however long you want!!

[D Boy]

Better Engine braking in 4th

[corhijas]

from what i have read i think i will tow in 4th from now on

[ingles]

Dunno bout nissans,but in the yodas the simple answer is DONT.I would say most (90+ %) of the boxes we do up at work are a result of this problem , and yes they chew a fair hole in bank accounts.Unfortunately,you generally dont get much warning;first they go along allright ,and then they go bangcrashrattlethumpstop!

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

ingles, it's the same with all of them! And it makes me want to grab some people by the back of the neck and rattle them around a little!! You know, the type who say "Oh, it must be just some vehicles, 'cos I've towed in 5th for a while now and it hasn't been a bother, so I'm OK!" They forgot the very important word after the "it hasn't been a bother, YET!" But it IS COMING!!

No matter what they think and how strong they think their car is, the gearboxes are all made basically the same way, and they ALL exhibit the same wear characteristics, it's just that some people are lucky enough to get away with it for longer, or until they get rid of the car, when the person who gets the car actually pays the penalty!! It should probly be one of those mandatory questions before you purchase a 2nd hand car; Has this car ever been used to tow in 5th gear! If Yes, demand a gearbox overhaul before exchanging money!

It is one of those things that occurs, drive a manual car, the clutch WILL wear out eventually, some early, some late, but they ALL wear out! Tow with a manual gearbox in 5th gear, the gearbox WILL eventually wear out and die, some sooner, some later, but they ALL do it, some just manage to keep going despit the damage and wear. And if you don't tow in 5th gear, the life of the gearbox can be indefinite!

Cheers!

[patroler]

do the same principles apply to the auto box? Yes i have the 3.0l nissan blow up engine. When towing a camper (800-900kg) should i be in third or is fourth ok?
Thanks
Greg.

[saltyqld]

Hey salty, just like (almost) any other gearbox, the Feroza G/box has a 5th gear that is basically a bolted on overdrive unit! Yeah, some are now built in and integral to the main casing, but they can mainly be identified as an afterthought if you look carefully. Although some of the latest 6 speeders don't look/work quite the same way??!! Anyhow, the point is that the 5th gear isn't ever going to be as strong as 4th, the 1:1 ratio or the straight thru gear! All the lower gears are made big and heavy to capably manage the torque that is being passed thru them, but 5th is usually made as a smaller lighter gear 'cos it doesn't expect too much in the way of torque!

A good thing about the Feroza is that once in 5th gear, it is pretty much NOT ABLE to put too much torque thru 5th cos of the relationship between engine revs, torque & power, and road speed! So while you shouldn't make a practice of towing for long distances in 5th gear even in a Feroza, in practice you'll find that the outfit manages this fairly well all on its lonesome!! If the load is big enough to make any difference, the engine can't drive the rear wheels fast or hard enough to maintain a damaging speed/load in/on 5th gear!

So unless you've towed 1.5 tonne across the Nullabor behind the Feroza, then you should be fairly confident that it's surviving! That is, unless you've managed to get that 2.8 intercooled Turbo Diesel fitted under the bonnet!! They CAN keep going at gearbox punishing speeds/loads for however long you want!!

cheers for that info Pete :thumb:

will be more careful when towing now :D

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

do the same principles apply to the auto box? Yes i have the 3.0l nissan blow up engine. When towing a camper (800-900kg) should i be in third or is fourth ok?
Thanks
Greg.

Not to the same extent, but YES! The 'overdrive' gears are still smaller than the lower gears, and while in the auto the torque converter tends to protect them a lot, you are still putting massive stresses thru gears that were intended for light usage just to give you better economy and drop the revs at cruise speed. If the engine/auto g/box starts hunting, changing up and down trying to get the gear right, it is past the time to either switch off the overdrive, and/or pull the selector back into a lower gear! Same goes for climbing hills, when it starts hunting you should've already changed down. As for descending hills, it's just like a manual, select a lower gear and let the engine help with the braking and speed control!

With both manuals and auto's, the name of the game is anticipation, and doubly so when you are towing! You should be looking well ahead and planning the gear that you need to be in well before you get there, and making the selection EARLY so that you don't get those stresses running thru the box. By selecting early, you'll be in the right rev range too, rather than way too low and having to work up to the torque band revs and therefore making the engine lug along and increase the stress load on the gearbox!! Think ahead, plan for it to be smooth, get in the right gear early, don't use 5th (or 4th if that's the overdrive gear in the auto!) for anything except those gently loping miles with no load that you find in Oz with it's wide open spaces!!

Take Care, and Enjoy!

[clinton l]

With my bohimoth cruiser towing a car trailer with the lux on it, it seem to rev hard in 4th when on the flat, doing 100kph. But 2500rpm to 2600rpm (touch more on hills ect..)isn't hard is it?

[patroler]

thanks peter

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

With my bohimoth cruiser towing a car trailer with the lux on it, it seem to rev hard in 4th when on the flat, doing 100kph. But 2500rpm to 2600rpm (touch more on hills ect..)isn't hard is it?

I hope you meant behemoth (enormous beast) as opposed to bohemoth (attempting to emulate a bohemian, ie. a wanna be socially unconventional person)

Back to the Cruiser towing! If your Cruiser is revving hard cos it's dropped out of 'torque converter lock-up' in 4th (or overdrive) then it is the auto attempting to save you from the damage that occurs in manuals! Instead of staying locked up and forcing all that toque to go thru the weaker gears, it's unlocked the torque converter, letting a degree of 'fluid slip' occur and thereby taking some of the damaging load off that particular gear.

Not really the best way to go, mainly 'cos continuing like that will be creating some fairly high heat loads thru overheating trans fluid; and it will eventually cause the trans fluid to break down and n longer be able to do the oil type stuff it needs to, plus it can overheat the engine coolant, 'cos the trans cooler usually runs thru the bottom of the radiator. Many towing kits for auto's add an external trans fluid cooler for this very reason.

If it's going to be doing that for long periods, you are probably better off to switch the overdrive off (if you can) or even turn the torque converter lock-up off so that it doesn't keep trying to lock-up. If it's trying to do all that, AND changing between 3rd and 4th a fair bit, better to select the lower gear and leave it there. You might find that you can run in 3rd (which is often the 1:1 gear) AND keep the torque converter lock-up going. That is the best option if your auto has the ability to do it. Next best is just 3rd without the lock-up, then start working your way down the gears, 2nd, 1st, etc.

Make sense? In you particular case I'd be looking to turn the o/drive off (either a switch that'll display OD OFF on the dash somewhere, or select 3rd gear) and if you can still let the torque converter lock up, then do so!

Cheers!

[clinton l]

it's a manual box peter

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Sorry Clinton, if it's a manual, it's not actually the revs that's at issue, it's the amount of torque running thru it in 5th gear. If you are towing in 5th gear it IS creating Cumulative wear issues in the gearset that WILL eventually result in gear failure at the very least, gearbox failure being more likely as time goes by! And it can go from apparently managing to being totally defunct in a matter of minutes at speed!!

So your 2500 to 2600 rpm in 4th gear is way better than the same or lesser revs in 5th. And in my experience with the Toyo motors, I'd be guessing that with those tyres (you haven't made much in the way of gearing changes have you?) then your usable torque band is gonna be about 1800 rpm up to about 3500, maybe even 3800rpm. Peak revs will still be 4200 ish (that's where the red line is, isn't it?) So your revs in 4th is going to be spot on for the middle of the torque band!!

Ideally you'd be looking to run at around the top of the bottom 3rd of the torque band, ie torque band being 1800 to 3600, bottom 3rd 1800 to 2400, top section of that would be 2200 to 2400 rpm is the ideal band for you to be driving at. Pushing it up to about 2500 2600 is just going to cost a little more in fuel and give you a little bit faster speed. If you need to do that speed to get anywhere in a reasonalbe time, you're not going to be doing too much wrong!! Yeah, you'll still get there by dropping the revs a bit and running at about 80kph, but for a Lovedays trip that's gonna add no more than about an hour or so!

Not so much of an issue for Lovedays, but it's about 2 days extra if you are driving to Sydney, 4 days extra to Darwin, about the same to Perth or Cairns. That can make a Looonng trip out of what could be a reasonalbe run over 5/6 days! But you'd certainly have time to look at the scenery!! But that decision is one I get to leave entirely up to you!! My own choice, I'd probly be splitting the difference and running at around the 2400 2500 mark and averaging 90 kph. Still a good speed, still a good fuel economy, but not the best on either! No real strain on the gearbox by running in 4th, the total trip length is not majorly impacted by an extra day or so getting to the start point, I mean, the Cape's been there for a few millenia, it won't miss me for 2 more days!

Enjoy!

[clinton l]

thanks peter, you are the man in the know!

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Learning more and more about less and less every day!! Soon I'll know everything there is to know about nothing! Makes my head spin, and my mind run around in circles! Soon it'll be running around so much that it'll probably disappear up my ..... fundamental orifice!!

Gotta let some of it out for exercise or it'll explode!! And that'd be messy!

[Tired Triton]

It is okay to tow in any gear of your choice as long as you dont labour the motor (run revs too low in gear). Personally I keep my revs up above the 2000-2200 rpm mark, depending on the weight of the trailer/caravan, and as soon as I see the revs starting to go down to near those revs (approaching a hill for example) I drop back into the next lowest gear. Have had my Triton for 5 years and the fifth gear is fine, even though the gearbox is due for an overhaul. The Triton has 205,000 kms on the clock.