Turbo

[splodge]

Just finished a trip from Casino NSW to Winton VIC in my 4.2 diesel Patrol towing a trailer & the hills nearly drove me insane. Anyone got any recommendations on turbo's eg what works best & what doesn't ?

[baby_troupe]

In the mag there are some listed in the ad for "Gear to Goannawhere".
These seem pretty cheap in comparison to other units, so I can only guess that the reliability of these units is questionable.
You may find that a Supercharger is cheaper & of more benefit as it is on tap at low revs, whereas the turbo will take time to spin up.

As for types of Turbos I would recomend, the Mitsubishi always seems to get good reliability & good value for money.
I hear the Safari is a good unit, but alot more expensive than the Mitsubishi.

[splodge]

I have heard that the switzer are good as they can be made to produce boost at idle. A super charger would be great but I have never heard of anyone doing them for diesels. I looked up the CAPA website but they only advertised turbo's for diesels. If I get a turbo I want one that will provide boost as low in the rev range as possible.

[Tlux]

As turbos rely on air flow through the exhaust, I think you need an engine that produces max torque as low as possible in the rev range then as you open the throttle air flow will provide the boost.

[Heywood Jablowme]

have a Denco Turbo on my GQ TD42, love it.. best money I spent.
www.dencodiesel.com
Produces more low down than the Safari, and DTS, according to Mark at ARB sthn when I was shoppin for mine... He also runs the Denco at 20psi!

[mav]

hi, how much did it cost for the turbo, all of the turbo companys seem to claim the most torque down low.
what power and torque did the denco make at 20 psi.

[RobertM]

Binskins in Wauchope has a patrol that has had the turbo treatment that they race and they do Turbo upgrades.
I know one of the mechanics that work there and he really knows his stuff.
http://www.4wdworld.com.au/outlets/binskin/

[Bikie]

my suggestion is to go to the Safari website and read the write up on the three different GQ Pat's they tested there. One was a standard factory turbo, one was supercharged, and one was a safari turbo... makes you wonder about supercharging??

[Heywood Jablowme]

hi, how much did it cost for the turbo, all of the turbo companys seem to claim the most torque down low.
what power and torque did the denco make at 20 psi.



f'ken heaps, no on paper figs..

As you say, they ALL claim the best.

Colin on the EO list has a supercharged TD42 and swears by it, it is another option, gives you instant power too....

I spent ages calling places, going there, etc, asking questions, but came down to best service, and that was the Denco dude. DTS was deplorable, the bloke behind the counter KNEW NOTHING. He kept having to 'call' someone to ask my questions, simple things like
Me "whats in the kit?"
Him " ahhh Ia calla a da bloke and ask heeeeeeem"...

[Heywood Jablowme]

Binskins in Wauchope has a patrol that has had the turbo treatment that they race and they do Turbo upgrades.
I know one of the mechanics that work there and he really knows his stuff.
http://www.4wdworld.com.au/outlets/binskin/



watching his Blue GQ Ute in the outback challange that thing flys. I'd give him a call for sure,you could do worse.

[chopper]

I went with a DTS system, not sure of the actual manufacturer of the turbo, 2 years and 55000kms later, still very happy wuth the turbo, shame i had to replace the engine ::)

[mav]

I went with a DTS system, not sure of the actual manufacturer of the turbo, 2 years and 55000kms later, still very happy wuth the turbo, shame i had to replace the engine ::)


what happen to your engine ??? (was it just worn out or did it blow up)

[Heywood Jablowme]

what happen to your engine ??? (was it just worn out or did it blow up)


Turbos put lots more strain on an engine, and if you have 250,000klms on an engine its worn.. Turbo will just speed up the shitting itself thing.

[mav]

Turbos put lots more strain on an engine, and if you have 250,000klms on an engine its worn.. Turbo will just speed up the shitting itself thing.


It shouldn't just blow up because its got 250 kms on the clock turbo diesel truck motors are good for 1 to 1.5 millon kms ??? ??? ???

[vompie69]

have a Denco Turbo on my GQ TD42, love it.. best money I spent.
www.dencodiesel.com
Produces more low down than the Safari, and DTS, according to Mark at ARB sthn when I was shoppin for mine... He also runs the Denco at 20psi!

Have to agree, we also have GQ TD42, never looked back,
best money spent, what hills???

[DrTCM]

mav the diesel engines in our 4wd will not last 1 milliom kms they are heavy duty truck engines will. the 4.2 diesel should last 500 000kms without a problems then a rebuild sould be coming

I'm sure you will get a lot of K's from the engine, but not from the turbo, and the injectors, and the injector pump.... anyone got an idea on the expected lifespan of a turbo? somebody once quoted around 200k as a benchmark.

[kitch76]

Hey check your back issues of 4wd Monthly as they did an article of a torbo for a nissan and they rated well. I dont know if these guys are any good but I think its the guys my brother-in-law (a mechanic) was talking about and he said they are the best in the business.
MTQ Engine Systems (Aust) Pty Ltd
Unit 4, 398 Taylor St Toowoomba QLD 4350
ph: (07) 4633 1355 Turbochargers

[mav]

again on the big trucks i've seen turbos do past 1 millon kms but have seen trucks that have done 5 in less than 60, 000 kms, different manifacturers, but on a 4b i'd say half a millon kms then if your getting it rebuilt get the turbo done too. ;D



I'm sure you will get a lot of K's from the engine, but not from the turbo, and the injectors, and the injector pump.... anyone got an idea on the expected lifespan of a turbo? somebody once quoted around 200k as a benchmark.

[HDJ105]

my suggestion is to go to the Safari website and read the write up on the three different GQ Pat's they tested there. One was a standard factory turbo, one was supercharged, and one was a safari turbo... makes you wonder about supercharging??


The Overlander Mag article you mention is here:-
http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/safari/turbo/turbo_super/air_force1.htm

The life of a "looked after" turbo (ie. allowing proper cool down, etc) should exceed that of the engine. Keep in mind that servicing of the fuel system, ie. pump and particularly injectors on indirect injection engines needs to be proactive.

For longevity and peak performance I'd be including an aneroid for the fuel pump and intercooler too.

[Mach1]

There is some good information on turbos here.
http://www.berrimadiesel.com.au/publications/index.html
I had mine (DTS) fitted there 2 years ago an still going strong.
Some info there on the aneroids too.
I have heard good things from friends who have Garret and Denco kits too.
Freddy

[HeathGQ]

I know On Track 4wd Centre at Springwood in Brisbane does superchargers for deisels. The mechanic / owner has one in his GQ. Talk to Brett.

[Mach1]

my suggestion is to go to the Safari website and read the write up on the three different GQ Pat's they tested there. One was a standard factory turbo, one was supercharged, and one was a safari turbo... makes you wonder about supercharging??


The Overlander Mag article you mention is here:-
http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/safari/turbo/turbo_super/air_force1.htm

The life of a "looked after" turbo (ie. allowing proper cool down, etc) should exceed that of the engine. Keep in mind that servicing of the fuel system, ie. pump and particularly injectors on indirect injection engines needs to be proactive.

For longevity and peak performance I'd be including an aneroid for the fuel pump and intercooler too.




An aneroid is simply a pollution control device that will simply allow you to overfuel.

[mickbeny]

Hi all...DTS/MTQ,dont have the one type turbo fits all,they use a different turbo for different engines,and turbos are modified to suit as well.

Aneroids are a pollution device,but they also keep the air to fuel mixtures even through out the rev range,which is better for the engine.Aneroids are recomended for turbo engines.Overfuelling is less likely with an aneroid if set up properly.

Without an aneroid,the engine maybee overfueling[rich] at low revs,perfect air to fuel in mid revs,and lean high revs.Aneroids solve this problem.


peace...

[HDJ105]

An aneroid is simply a pollution control device that will simply allow you to overfuel.

LOL, IMHO the truth is just the opposite. ::)

Without an aneroid, the injection pump has no sense of what boost is doing, and delivers an amount of fuel dependant on throttle position and engine rpm. If the engine has been tuned for peak power, usually this will mean the vehicle will overfuel at low rpm but be perfect at high rpm. To get the air fuel ratio (AFR) close to correct down low would mean it would be too lean at higher rpm, and thus make less than ideal power up high.

By fitting an aneroid or boost compensator, the fuel injection pump can now sense how much boost is being made at any throttle position and rpm, and make a fully informed decision on the correct amount of fuel to maintain ideal AFR's. This is of course provided the aneroid has been correctly fitted and setup, which can be quite intensive and time consuming, and does require the use of (expensive) test equipment like a dyno.

Is it a pollution control device, well I guess that's one of it's features. Does every factory turbocharged diesel engine have one - yes. Apart from making the tell tale black smoke out the exhaust, overfuelling also increases the soot loading of the engine oil and this leads to extra engine wear (or more frequent oil changes).

It's all a compromise, and to many a compromised result is acceptable. But to many others who want to get the maximum return from their $$ invested in a turbo system (and their vehicle), and make their vehicle run at it's peak, and engine longevity is an issue then the extra cost of the aneroid over the turbo system purchase price is worth it. Not to mention the EPA compliance requirements, the complaints from the petrol drivers trying to follow you, etc, etc.

[Mach1]

Interesting stuff HDJ. Maybe we are getting ripped off then? If the aneroid is so vital maybe they should come as standard with every aftermarket turbo?? I also wonder what the specs are that they are setting it too since there are no factory specs for an aftermarket device. Maybe they're just pulling it out of the hat along with the rabbit :)

[HDJ105]

Interesting stuff HDJ. Maybe we are getting ripped off then? If the aneroid is so vital maybe they should come as standard with every aftermarket turbo?? I also wonder what the specs are that they are setting it too since there are no factory specs for an aftermarket device. Maybe they're just pulling it out of the hat along with the rabbit :)


No ones getting "ripped off", it depends on how much one wants to pay, and what sort of result they expect. You only get what you pay for after all, and there's no doubt that to supply, install and then set an aneroid up correctly means $$$.

If a customer walks in, and the sales person says you can have turbo system "x" for $2000, or system "y" for $2800, without going into detail of course the customer will go the cheaper option.

If the sales person says system "y" includes an extra piece of hardware which will improve particulate emmisions, engine longevity, fuel consumption, etc, and that every factory TD has one, then the customer may think about it.

Of course if the sales person or his establishment doesn't have the necessary skill, equipment or expertise, he's not going to offer it is he?

As for the rabbit, mate there's no magic required. It's a simple mechanical device that needs particular attention to set up initially.

Have you pulled one apart and seen how it works?

[mickbeny]

Hi all...An aneroid also makes the engine run sooooooo much smoother.


peace...

[Mach1]

Interesting stuff HDJ. Maybe we are getting ripped off then? If the aneroid is so vital maybe they should come as standard with every aftermarket turbo?? I also wonder what the specs are that they are setting it too since there are no factory specs for an aftermarket device. Maybe they're just pulling it out of the hat along with the rabbit :)


No ones getting "ripped off", it depends on how much one wants to pay, and what sort of result they expect. You only get what you pay for after all, and there's no doubt that to supply, install and then set an aneroid up correctly means $$$.

If a customer walks in, and the sales person says you can have turbo system "x" for $2000, or system "y" for $2800, without going into detail of course the customer will go the cheaper option.

If the sales person says system "y" includes an extra piece of hardware which will improve particulate emmisions, engine longevity, fuel consumption, etc, and that every factory TD has one, then the customer may think about it.

Of course if the sales person or his establishment doesn't have the necessary skill, equipment or expertise, he's not going to offer it is he?

As for the rabbit, mate there's no magic required. It's a simple mechanical device that needs particular attention to set up initially.

Have you pulled one apart and seen how it works?


So it's an additional extra...kinda like upsizing at McDonalds or having 'fries with that'. ;D
But seriously, DTS/MTQ specify NOT fitting the aneroid and will void the warranty if an aneroid is fitted. This is because the non factory turbo engine is already under enough stress, it is an indirect injected engine and was never designed that it would have a turbo on it. The aneroid increases performance the way everything diesel does ie overfuelling. People are promoting a device which will increase the performance on top of and beyond that of the turbo. All safely???
No wonder you say the initial set up is so difficult. There are NO specs to set it to. I wonder, maybe you can tell us what specs they use with this difficult initial set up?

I guess it's a free world. If people want to risk damage to the engine for performance increases they will. Then they 'will' only get a few hundred thousand before a rebuild.

[mickbeny]

Hi all...MTQ in Newcastle advised me to get the aneroid fitted...And besides,If the exhaust gas temperatures are correct through out the rev range,and not to higher of boost,and the engine is not overfuelling or lean in any rev range,the aneroid is a benifit,not a burden.

The people who advise against Aneroids are the shops who don't have the facaulty to fit and set them....the truth is you should have one,but its not essential.....just like an intercooler.


peace...

[Mach1]

Hi all...MTQ in Newcastle advised me to get the aneroid fitted...And besides,If the exhaust gas temperatures are correct through out the rev range,and not to higher of boost,and the engine is not overfuelling or lean in any rev range,the aneroid is a benifit,not a burden.

The people who advise against Aneroids are the shops who don't have the facaulty to fit and set them....the truth is you should have one,but its not essential.....just like an intercooler.


peace...



I'm sorry but you are wrong.
Check out http://diesel4wd.tripod.com for the facts.

If you are not overfuelling what are you paying the money for an aneroid for??? What are the benefits?? They simply coverup the increased performance (overfuelling = black smoke) that the workshop might be getting for you after fitment. The problem is the increased fuel loadings are not good for the engine. They can not be set up 'correctly' because there are no specs for them. They can simply be set to stop the black smoke you would get down low when they over fuel without it. Without it you might get a small puff of smoke down low but thats all if set up properly.

Maybe you should get out to the Caravan and Camping Show at Rose Hill this weekend and have a word to Andrew from Berrima Diesel. I was there yesterday and spent about an hour talking to him about various things including turbos and tuning devices. MTQ are the biggest turbo manufacturer in this country and he has fitted on average one turbo a day for the past few years and has probably got more experience fitting turbos than any other single person in the country. He is very knowledgable and approachable, not like some in the scene.

IF you want to fit the aneroid so you can overfuel that is your choice but be aware it will void warranty. You can do whatever you want to your engine but fuel = power = wear and tear.

peace

[mickbeny]

Hi all...Freddy,I got my turbo fitted by berrima diesel,so ive had a good chat with them.they even said an intercooler was counter productive[we won't go into that].

Have you seen there facaulty????????I have,Its far from modern.They talk down aneroids because it is not in there interest,they cannot possibly set them up because they don't have the equipment to do so....They done a top job fitting my turbo......[but i won't go into the bad job they done].

Freddy,i read your link,take the time to absorb what it says,particularly to the "settings" part.MTQs people set the setting within spec with the aneroid,my warranty is AOK.....My engine does not over or underfuel in any rev range,unlike my pre aneroid settings.


peace...

[Mach1]

Well seems you know more than the people who fit these every day. Since according to you their faculty is far from perfect and they have no proper equipment then I guess their high standing in the industry must come from their ability, something maybe the men in cleanrooms and white coats should have ;)

The bulliten in the link is from MTQ (not Berrima) and specifically mentions the fitting of aneroids as voiding warranty on their turbo system. As long as you have it in writing then you should be happy with your warranty. Like I said, each to their own and people will do what they want to do to their vehicles regardless. I would prefer to trust the experts not the netsperts :)

Can you please tell me what the 'specs' are they are using??? This has been mentioned many times but no one can specify where they come from.

[HDJ105]

Hi all...Freddy,I got my turbo fitted by berrima diesel,so ive had a good chat with them.they even said an intercooler was counter productive [we won't go into that].



LOL... I think that statement speaks volumes :o

More and more modern turbocharged diesel engines are intercooled, be it a 4WD's, stationary engines (eg. pump or genset), tractors, trucks or whatever. I guess they all have it wrong too?

???

[HDJ105]

If you are not overfuelling what are you paying the money for an aneroid for??? What are the benefits?? They simply coverup the increased performance (overfuelling = black smoke) that the workshop might be getting for you after fitment. The problem is the increased fuel loadings are not good for the engine. They can not be set up 'correctly' because there are no specs for them. They can simply be set to stop the black smoke you would get down low when they over fuel without it. Without it you might get a small puff of smoke down low but thats all if set up properly.


Freddy, I think you need to go and have a think about what you're saying. Black smoke = rich running = overfuelling. An aneroid prevents this from taking place. You've just admitted "Without it you might get a small puff of smoke down low but thats all if set up properly" - black smoke is OVERFUELLING!. A properly setup aneroid will prevent this from happening.


Maybe you should get out to the Caravan and Camping Show at Rose Hill this weekend and have a word to Andrew from Berrima Diesel. I was there yesterday and spent about an hour talking to him about various things including turbos and tuning devices.

You didn't need to mention names for us to work out which web site you've been studying ;)
So you've read one website and now spoken to a member of its staff. How about you go and speak to some others in the industry, not only turbo fitters but specialist fuel injection shops, and listen to their opinions. The person you spoke to has already admitted to being known as the black sheep of the industry in this forum.

I'm off to Canberra next Saturday for a "diesel injection day", put on by 2 specialst shops in an attempt to squash the misinformation being spread around.

Have you gone and had a look at an aneroid to see how it works yet?

[mickbeny]

Hi all...Freddy,I don't know more than the people who fitt them,but i know enough to know when i smell a rat....without going into detail,ive been to every diesel injection specialist in newcastle,and they "ALL" said it was a good move that i put the aneroid on,saying my engine will last longer if set correctly.

I don't know what the settings are,but what i do know is my engine doesn't over or under fuel at any rev range on full boost...Aneroid settings are not a one setting fitts all,because different turbos behave differently,and different shops set different boost,some engines are intercooled while others arn't.setting the fuel/aneroid is set to each individual engines specifications.

I know the bulliten was MTQs...you just didn't understand the settings part.

My engine performs better with an aneroid because in the rev range where my engine under fuelled[lean],it now runs at the perfect air to fuel mixture.In a diesel lean means cooler and less power,and if too lean,it could mean not enough lubrication from the fuel.


peace...

[Mach1]

I'm really not interested in arguing my point much more as it seems we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. The MTQ bulliten seems quite clear to me but I guess everyone can read it how they want.

Mick said:
"setting the fuel/aneroid is set to each individual engines specifications."

My point was that there are no specifications or are you telling me each seperate engine is sold with different specs??

peace
(hope you don't mind me stealing your tag Mick but I think it's the bomb)

Can I see some Shed Guy action going on in here???

These arguements over diseaseals are shittin me lately, why can't you all agree to disagree. I think that something that changes the mixture accordingly to the amount needed is a good thing, much like fuel injection really.

That's my 2cents anyhow

[Tunit]

my suggestion is to go to the Safari website and read the write up on the three different GQ Pat's they tested there. One was a standard factory turbo, one was supercharged, and one was a safari turbo... makes you wonder about supercharging??


Ah yes...I remeber that test. No offense bikie to you just commenting about that test.

Ooppss they forgot to mention that the supercharged one ( which of course was the one they were trying to downplay) was basically a standard set up whilst not happening to mention the turboed ones that they were using in the test were set up with aneroids on the pump for more fuel. Of course which ones looked good?? ::)

I couldn't call that at test of independance when it was done inhouse by the said turbo company that just happened to mention some important modifications.

It would be good if some one like a TAFE would get involved in these tests to do some real independant testing.

Or maybe the magazines could do some blind tests with the product supplier not knowing where his product is going and the tester not knowing what he is testing.

WOULD BE GOOD FOR A CHANGE!

Other than that no one knows....

[Tunit]

:D

Wow I've just finally read all this mumbo jumbo after my last post ... what happens when you have been away for a while.

Thats all I can call it.

Looks like the diesel schoolyard brawl is on again.

I think that if we all look at it seriously from the guys that have been on this thread maybe its unsafe to even get a diesel since they are so unreliable when even sat in!

One thing is for sure though I would buy only one system that is worth buying and that is the DTS/MTQ system.

MTQ/DTS are the only ones enough guts to give engine and driveline warranty with their systems.

Unlike some!

:-X

[Tunit]

I'm off to Canberra next Saturday for a "diesel injection day", put on by 2 specialst shops in an attempt to squash the misinformation being spread around.

Have you gone and had a look at an aneroid to see how it works yet?



Attempt is right.

Must be a real worry owning a diesel.

Unfortunately with the infighting going on here and within the diesel scene no one will ever know.

Only Rudolf Diesel will..... bless his soul! ;)

[Wilesy]

Can I see some Shed Guy action going on in here???



No you won't >:(

The last thread which went that way was deleted, there is no way we are going to allow that to happen again.

Anyone gets out of line this time, the action will be swift and not easily forgotton.

[Wilesy]

Only Rudolf Diesel will..... bless his soul! ;)


As a matter of fact, the Diesel Engine was actually invented by a West Australian man in 1885, and didn't have the resources to finance a patent for it and it was shelved until Rudolph Diesel in Germany took up the basic design earlier drawn up by the Australian man, and honed it to basically what we see today.

However, he was never given any recognition for his efforts.

It was then in production approximately 5 years later in 1897.

The things you see on Foxtel History Channel.....

[mickbeny]

Hi all...Freddy,I wouldn't have a clue to what factory setting of the aneroid are....But aftermarket turbo's are mostly fitted to used vehicles,Aftermarket turbo's are made by numerouse different companys,so different brand turbo's are not the same as each other....so aneroids should have different settings to suit different turbo's and engines...plus what if the engine is modified?[cams,ports,valves,exhausts,intercoolers ect]?...Factory turbo engines are the same spec as each other,so i would think there aneroid settings would be the same settings set to suit a factory engine.

freddy,your welcome to my peace signature any day of the week.....so here is a big PEACE to you mate.


PEACE again...

[Wilesy]

Ok,

I have read this post with interest, and for the life of me I still have no bloody idea what the heck you blokes are talking about....

What the blazes is an anaroid, Sounds like something which hangs out of your butt.... and where does it go, what does it actually do and what does it look like?

[Tunit]

Only Rudolf Diesel will..... bless his soul! ;)


As a matter of fact, the Diesel Engine was actually invented by a West Australian man in 1885, and didn't have the resources to finance a patent for it and it was shelved until Rudolph Diesel in Germany took up the basic design earlier drawn up by the Australian man, and honed it to basically what we see today.

However, he was never given any recognition for his efforts.

It was then in production approximately 5 years later in 1897.

The things you see on Foxtel History Channel.....




My fault Wilsey,

I actualy should have been talking about Robert Bosch as it seemed to be fuel injection related. :)

[Tunit]

Ok,

I have read this post with interest, and for the life of me I still have no bloody idea what the heck you blokes are talking about....

What the blazes is an anaroid, Sounds like something which hangs out of your butt.... and where does it go, what does it actually do and what does it look like?




It certainly sounds like the other guys were paranoid or had haemeroids but this seems to be about aneroids. Or fuel pump compensators.

It is a device that is part of the injection pump on a turbo diesel. It is apparent on most factory turbo charged diesels used on the road.

A large proportion of large capacity factory turbo diesels used don't have these devices on the pump. Another debate I'm sure. ;)

Basically, it allows an increase in fuel loadings only when turbo boost is present. A small hose needs to be connecting it to the inlet manifold region so as to supply boost to it.

The boost then pushes on the device which moves a pin for more fuel.

Picture a wastegate being pushed by boost. Same thing. A spring holding the pin one way and then the boost over coming the spring tension to push the pin the other way.

So at the end of the day it means that you have excess fuelling when there is boost. And standard non turbo fuelling when off boost.

I suppose this debate looks as though it has gone down the gurgler as a few schoolyard brawlers have thumped it to oblivian!

With or with out it it doesn't matter at the end of the day for after market installations.

Just be warned though.. considering the recommended fuel increase when installing a turbo charger aftermarket system is only usually a 10% increase in fuel loadings (about as much as a non turbo lightly smoking up a hill) and the factory turbo increase would be 20% increease in fuel, ask the guy fitting the aneroid as to what increase he is setting it too.

In fact since they should have a modern pump bench to do it on so get a print out of the test figures with the pump number and your rego number on it just as insurance if it fries itself down the track!!

Also considering NO aftermarket turbo maker supplies neither fuel pump specs nor rear wheel dyno figures to set things too he should also give you a print out on the exhaust gas temperature and air/fuel ratios and most importantly ambient temp it was done at as THESE are the figures that the aftermarket turbo companies give the installers!!! So even after the expensive pump job the vehicle is going to have to be put under load to actually check and set things reasonably properly. Remeber any ambient air temperature changes after that can change things dramatically.

The most common answer for what figures does the pump shop set the now modified pump too is the factory turbo settings. This is fine but remember fuel is heat. It will go well but interanlly it is hot. If we are talking a factory turbo 1HD-T 80 V's a non 1HZ nonturbo. The 1HZ is a pre-combustion chamber engine and the little chambers don't like heat. Whilst the 1HD-T is direct injection turbo diesel and the fuel squirts onto the nice tough piston!

At teh end of the day the best thing to do is keep things conservative in the fuelling department. Remember even the best figures can blow out the window on a 30'C+ day so conservative means conservation of the engine! Or a EGT installed in between the turbo and the manifold. Registering pre turbo EGT and keeping it not more than 700'C will help too!

BUT!!! this is only a guide as a huge number of factors can throw this out the window too.

Remeber it is aftermarket and there are NO FREE LUNCHES in life!!

Is that enough. ???

I reckon they would be money well spent anyway

[Wilesy]

Thanks for that 8)

Well explained, I really appreciate it. You learn something new every day :)

[Mid73]

GCG Turbochargers do turbo and supercharger kits for Patrols and they know what they are talking about.

[MUSS]

hey fellas interesting to see that there is alot of talk about the SCHWITZER turbo kits from denco....i have to say out of all of the turbo kits on the market i recon that this kit well priced and made to suit those lads out there wanting more torque...(especially at boost)

i myself have recently fitted a SCHWITZER turbo to my toyota middy 3B... and once it had the exhaust done and tuned right i know have boost at idle and am only runnin 8 psi boost!!! i paid $1730+$50 postage and handling direct from dencodiesel.... and if you get a couple of mates together you shood be able to get it for or similar to the price i got it for.... ;D

[baby_troupe]

"I'm off to Canberra next Saturday for a "diesel injection day", put on by 2 specialst shops in an attempt to squash the misinformation being spread around."

Can someone start a new thread giving us all a rundown on what went down at this "Diesel Injection Day"??
thanks

Isn't that the cooma one?

[gc]

"I'm off to Canberra next Saturday for a "diesel injection day", put on by 2 specialst shops in an attempt to squash the misinformation being spread around."

Can someone start a new thread giving us all a rundown on what went down at this "Diesel Injection Day"??
thanks


Fredddy, there's a brief description of the 1st LCOOL diesel information day held in late Feb. The second one mentioned was to cater for the overflow because of the huge response. They were terrific events. Very informative and the amount of effort and number of staff who were there was huge. The link is http://www.lcool.org/trips/did1/report.html

On another note, your comments questioning the impartiality of the magazine article on supercharging vs turbocharging were way off the mark.

As were the comments about the boost compensator operation.

You know as well as I that the compensator is a device that lowers the volume of fuel injected as the boost pressure drops - and that it is used to achieve good air fuel ratios across the RPM and throttle range. You just can't achieve the same clean running (smoke and oil contamination), fuel economy, power, torque and throttle response without one. And yes, there are very few people in the industry who can set one up correctly - hence all the mystery and misinformation about them. No doubt the reason for the (giggle) bulletin.

You certainly know how to be controversial ::)

Cheers
gc

edit: Changed Andrew to Freddy

[Roly]

DID was at cooma diesel for the lcool and patrol4wd lists

DID 2 was the same event run a few weeks ago to cate for large numbers of people

Dtronic day (again hosted by lcool) is at safari on the 22nd of may


lcool also had a night tour of the arb factory in melbourne recently

[HDJ105]

still waiting to here from HDJ how all the 'misinformation' about the aneroid was sorted at this DID2 but I guess thats a secret for Cool people only.

Mr Fred Johnson,

DID2 was no secret, it was open to everyone, and in fact there were people there from forums I've never heard of! If you are so keen to know all why didn't you just attend last Saturday, instead of your continual pissing and moaning about not getting a trip report delivered to you?

Dave Webster did speak of aneroids, their function, setup, etc. He also made mention the fact that they fit very few these days, due the increasing number of factory TD's, and in some cases the fitment of an aftermarket turbo doesn't warrant it (fitting of aneroid).

He didn't stand up like some "experts" and say fitting an aneroid will cause overfuelling, loss of warranty, or any other such garbage. And if you read MTQ's bulletin properly, you'd see that they don't either.

Have you looked to see how an aneroid works yet? (Hint: refer to GC's post above ;) )

[ferremit]

I'm sure you will get a lot of K's from the engine, but not from the turbo, and the injectors, and the injector pump.... anyone got an idea on the expected lifespan of a turbo? somebody once quoted around 200k as a benchmark.


Yep. after 200,000kms the seals are starting to go and your turbo isnt working as efficiently as it should.

Most truck turbos are about 5x the price of a 4by one, and they ARE 4x the build quality and durability

[oiler]

I fitted a turbo to my 1hz in an 80 series after 254 000k and have had no problems. The fitter was MTQ in Townsville using a DTS kit which has a Mitsubishi turbo as the basis. Huge increase in power at moderate boost. Cost approx $3500.

I made one call to check on supercharger cost and it was around $8000.

[TCM]

A mate of mine recently bought a 4.2 D GQ fitted with an aftermarket turbo, The thing is an absolute rocket, it leaves my TD42Ti GU for dead in fact I doubt even a 4.8 GU would give it a run.

I don't know what it is, the guy that owned it used to work for Cooma Diesel so I'd be guessing it'd done a fair bit of R&D time on a Dyno.


If someone is interested then I can find out what it is and who makes it.

[Tunit]

A mate of mine recently bought a 4.2 D GQ fitted with an aftermarket turbo, The thing is an absolute rocket, it leaves my TD42Ti GU for dead in fact I doubt even a 4.8 GU would give it a run.


Fuel glorious Fuel and quite a bit of it I'd say.

Fun while it lasts though!

[baby_troupe]

This thread will not be cleaned again.
Next time I will DELETE IT.

[Mach1]

This thread will not be cleaned again.
Next time I will DELETE IT.

<rant on>
Cleaned? ??? Don't you mean CENSORED! :o ;D :-X :-X :-X

BTW I think you missed a few bits.
<rant off>
TCM What brand turbo and how much?
Cheers,
Freddy

[TCM]

TCM What brand turbo and how much?
Cheers,
Freddy


I'll ask - but I doubt I'll see him for a couple of days - he'll be in bed for a week recovering after the Rally of Canberra ;D

I heard he had a REALLY big night at the after event party with the CH 10 girls :o

[Tunit]

This thread will not be cleaned again.
Next time I will DELETE IT.


With all due repspect since you are holding the 'flushing' chain baby troupe, what decides a delete to a flush.

I clearly remember being burnt on another thread that went from 'exhausts' to 'how to call in your mates and beat someone up'! That thread is still there!!

So we all know what decides either please let us know? ;)

Thankyou as I feel the flushing is certainly not indescriminant!!

[baby_troupe]

With all due repspect since you are holding the 'flushing' chain baby troupe, what decides a delete to a flush.

I clearly remember being burnt on another thread that went from 'exhausts' to 'how to call in your mates and beat someone up'! That thread is still there!!

So we all know what decides either please let us know? ;)

Thankyou as I feel the flushing is certainly not indescriminant!!

Simple answer really.
Keep it on topic & keep the personal stuff out of it.

If you want the other one looked at, PM me the link & I will be happy to do so.


Let's get back to the tread of Turbo ;)

[Tunit]

With all due repspect since you are holding the 'flushing' chain baby troupe, what decides a delete to a flush.

I clearly remember being burnt on another thread that went from 'exhausts' to 'how to call in your mates and beat someone up'! That thread is still there!!

So we all know what decides either please let us know? ;)

Thankyou as I feel the flushing is certainly not indescriminant!!

Simple answer really.
Keep it on topic & keep the personal stuff out of it.

If you want the other one looked at, PM me the link & I will be happy to do so.


Let's get back to the tread of Turbo ;)


Thanks Baby Troupe for that.

No..I'm happy to leave the other thread there and to give the people an option of deciding things.

Back to turboes. Let the discussion juices flow or is it flush....whoops.... only joking. ;)

[Wilesy]

Why don't we just talk about the superior engine the "Petrol" and have done with it...... :P

[Tunit]

Why don't we just talk about the superior engine the "Petrol" and have done with it...... :P


Sorry. :-\

Wonders never cease to amaze. Petrol heads... listen... what is the trade in value of a second hand petrol 4WD? and then also tell us where we can find a yard with a second hand diesel in it?? :P

Go the expensive diesel becasue it is still expensive second hand if you can find one!!! ;D

[Wilesy]

Having purchased and sold so many 4x4's over the years, this is one topic I feel I know a little about.

There is absolutely no difference in the trade in value between a diesel & petrol 4x4s in most circumstances.

Models are given a % rating of value for a particular year model, and it is all governed on the initial cost in which it was when purchased new.

For example the Patrol holds 67% of its initial purchase price according to Glass's guide after 3 years of ownership in good condition and average kilometers.

In fact, the Ti Patrol holds 68%, 1% more over the rest of the model range 8)

The difference is, a diesel will shift off the lot a little quicker than a petrol model of the same vehicle.

[TCM]

Wilesy - I haven't sold nearly as many trucks as you but surely if the Diesel shifts faster, its in more demand then its Petrol brother and could command a higher price?

[oiler]

80 series cost about $2000 more for diesel and once they get over 250 000k the diesels are worth about $5000 more on resale. It appears the longevity of the diesel engine is well known.

[Wilesy]

Wilesy - I haven't sold nearly as many trucks as you but surely if the Diesel shifts faster, its in more demand then its Petrol brother and could command a higher price?


Although that sounds as though it would be the case, however it's not.

It all comes down to how they present, the kilometers and how overall they are in condition, whether they have the log books, etc, etc.

You also find that Diesels also have a lot more accessories on them, as off roaders seem to buy them more than "Mum's Taxis" so that usually makes the difference.

Although some may appear to be of slightly higher value, it is because the dealers always have this line....Maaate, if it were stock, I could have given you more for it...

Maaate, if it were optioned up, I could have given you more for it.....

They are all the same. They turn the tables when they are selling them though....

I have sold and bought 16 4x4's (Every 18 months -2 years of ownership) so after a while, you recognize their phrases.....and know what you can expect on a trade in.

Don't forget, the Landcruiser Turbo Diesel when purchased new, was $10-15,000 more to initially purchase than the same model petrol......think about it! If you think about it, $5,000 difference now, means a worse re-sale...

[oiler]

I agree, the $12 000 extra for the LC100 TD over the 4.7V8 will buy a lot of petrol. In fact at $1.00/lt and 15lt/100k you get the next 80 000k for nothing. If you bought the TD to save fuel and there was a 4lt/100k difference between the two, it would take 300 000k to break even.

[Wilesy]

That also doesn't take into consideration the extra service costs....

So, in other words, if you purchase the Diesel over the petrol and down the track a little the two are only $5,000.00 apart in re-sale, I think the smart money goes on the Petrol one....

In most circumstances, there is only a 4 litre difference between the two over 99% of the regular driving.

The there is the extra power you get.....

Anyway, I drive petrol, so I am biased, and will always do so, so that makes me even more so... ::)

Then again, it all depends on what you need to do with it…Heck, if I was commuting along the Simpson Desert every day towing a 1.5 ton trailer in tow without any fuel stations for miles, I would definitely buy a diesel…but I don’t….

I use mine the same way as 99.9% of people do…..with a dream of doing the Simpson.

I don’t kid myself.

[TCM]

Edit - Doh! Wilesy got in first. This reply was to the previous post

Very true, but there are other advantages to a diesel.

Range is better 4L/100 difference translates to about 50km worth of range and as I said earlier with the amount of lead in my boot the difference is likely to be 100km.

Fuel storage is safer - I don't have an issue sticking a jerry of Diesel on the roofrack, I'd not like to do it with Petrol.

In the outback you can get diesel far easier then petrol - I know this isn't an issue for most people, but it has been for me in the past.

I personaly could have gone either way, the 4.2TD or the 4.8P both have their advantages and disadvantages. I chose the diesel, I don't regret it, but I'd probably not have regreted the petrol either. Horses for courses.

[Wilesy]

Yeah,

I agree with that 8)

One thing is for sure, they haven't invented an engine which is everything to everyone. ::)

[Mad Cruiser]

I have to say i don't really know much about Turbo's, i've bought Turbo Glide Intake ducts to suit a 4.2 Diesel 80 series.

My engine has been rebuilt not so long ago and i would like to turbo the 1HZ motor. Now i do not know which turbo to look out for on ebay, BB For Sale sections, can anyone help me out ? I also would like to put an intercooler on it as well.

I will be getting custom made extractors and exhaust system to go with whatever i get.

Many thanks
James

[comets]

>:(Well with out name dropping, we thought a turbo a great idea. BUTTTTTTT! We scored a dud. We had one installed in our 60 series Toyota. We are currently going though a discussion with the shop. It has only done 32000km since installed. We took it to our own mechanic thinking it was an engine problem. A serious lack of power and torque. He found it to be the turbo (Never dreamed it to be that) ??? Instantly it went back to the dealer. They have found that the fan blades to be bent and broken away. The first reasons for the damage were said to be dirt, (air filter was fine and working well ),then you must have gone through heavy rain. Yeah, get real!!!! No dirt marks around filter. Then they suggested sending back to distributer. GOOD IDEA!!! They have since found it to be rubber that has done it. Next question where did that come from. Answer an 'o' ring which was part of the turbo kit. It has broken loose and into the system. What caused it no one wants to say. The only work we have done to the car has been to clean the air filter surely this is not enough to move it. Perhaps it was't sucured in the first place. PROVE IT, they say. Well a ten cent o ring is now costing us a grand to fix. :'(BEWARE THE RUBBER< RAIN< DIRT. Any one else heard of this before. Not well designed for four wheel driving.

[TonyH]

Comets,

I'm researching to buy a turbo for my Datto. I know you said you don't wanna name drop, but could you please let me know what brand it is and hopefully save me some potential heartache, or at least make a balanced final choice? Just pm me if you don't wanna put it here.

Cheers

Tony

[HDJ105]

Holy thread-mining Batman, that threads over 3 years old!

[TonyH]

It is too! Ooops, oh well at least I can't be blamed for not using the search function, eh? hehehe

[HDJ105]

It is too! Ooops, oh well at least I can't be blamed for not using the search function, eh? hehehe

LOL... No, well done on that! I just don't know if "Comets" still lives here.

[TonyH]

Doesn't look like it hehehe