Driving training

[MadPaj]

Does any one know if it is wroth doing a 4wd driving course. i got an advanced driving course and i spoke to the trainer and he said that 4wd courses are about doing stuff like snatching,winching and the like but driver courses are more based on skills like getting to know understeer etc. i want to get a mixture of both.

does anyone know where this can done on the gold coast or perhaps brisbane.

Cheers
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/Madpaj/IMG_0053.jpg

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Do a 4WD Course, they cover the things that advanced driving courses don't even dream about, like wheel placement, centre of gravity versus centre of roll, hill starts and stall stops, ditch and creek crossings, deeper water crossings, use of handbrakes in steep descents, downhill gearchanges using handbrake, recovery, etc. etc. etc. :o :o :o

Then go do an advanced driver training course, defensive driving etc. Take the best from both of them, and develop your own unbeatable driving style ;D ;D ;D

Don't know who does them in Gold Coast area, but try Opposite Lock, they should be able to point you in the right direction!

[MadPaj]

yeah thanks for that ill should give that a go.

but where is ol? ill see arb at burleigh and see what they say. cause ive been looking into a course after reading it a few mags ago. the one that guliver was in.

cheers ;D

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Try

Opposite Lock Brisbane
3-7 Maud Street
Newstead, QLD, 4006

or

www.oppositelock.com.au

[MadPaj]

Yeah thanks for that ;)

[Silver]

Try your local 4wd club. Most clubs will offer training

[bad_religion_au]

i hope you have better luck than with my course...


had to do it to use the uni's 4bies...

umm tips he told us...

use 4x4 (part time 4be) if it rains on bitchi... don't ever lower tire pressures... oh and he was going to recover one of the vehicles by looping the snatchy around the top of the alloy bullbar ::)

i refused to get out the way of the recovery because i wasn't going to let it proceed and potentially hurt someone...

Who was it with b.r.a?.

I'm not sure whether you were disagreeing with the use of 4wd on wet bitumen, but I use 4wdH in those circumstances. Also in regard to tyre pressures, IMO it is better not to lower on wet bitumen. Unlike off road, you dont want a bigger footprint as water cannot escape as quickly which can result in aquaplaning :(.

Totally agree with your stance on the recovery; you'd have thought they would have known better.

Cheers
Allan Mac

[cpt-mud]

wht u dont use the bull bar
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/cpt-mud/troy001.jpg

Bit of water there Axel :o :o

Where was that pic taken

[slowlux]

Who was it with b.r.a?.

I'm not sure whether you were disagreeing with the use of 4wd on wet bitumen, but I use 4wdH in those circumstances. Also in regard to tyre pressures, IMO it is better not to lower on wet bitumen. Unlike off road, you dont want a bigger footprint as water cannot escape as quickly which can result in aquaplaning :(.

Totally agree with your stance on the recovery; you'd have thought they would have known better.

Cheers
Allan Mac


Do you have manual lockin hubs?

Do you lock them ina nd put it in hi4 on road? if so, i would prob stop doing this cause you get transmission wind up and you'll screw the diffs etc

correct me if im wrong

[Patrolman Pat]

Who was it with b.r.a?.

I'm not sure whether you were disagreeing with the use of 4wd on wet bitumen, but I use 4wdH in those circumstances. Allan Mac

Don't know the NL Paj that well. Is that a full time 4WD with centre diff. if so I can't see a prob using 4wdH on wet bitumen without locking the centre diff.
I wouldn't use 4WD in my patrol in the same conditions though.

[bad_religion_au]

Who was it with b.r.a?.

I'm not sure whether you were disagreeing with the use of 4wd on wet bitumen, but I use 4wdH in those circumstances. Also in regard to tyre pressures, IMO it is better not to lower on wet bitumen. Unlike off road, you dont want a bigger footprint as water cannot escape as quickly which can result in aquaplaning :(.

Totally agree with your stance on the recovery; you'd have thought they would have known better.

Cheers
Allan Mac


the 4hi on wet bitchi i wouldn't do in a part time 4x4 (which is what we were using) due to transfer case windup... i don't know if it'll cause trouble to name the place, but lets just say they do alot of driver training (heavy rigid licence, forklift, excavator and all the industrial stuff as well) and they are based in western victoria.

the recoveries scared me... there were a couple i didn't stop because they weren't as bad as the bullbar one, but i still cringed. they were more of an unsympathetic approach to the vehicles than a danger.

oh and the tire pressure comment wasn't related to wet bitchi driving... it was related to ANY form of offroading... including sand... be buggered if i'll drive sand at road pressures

The NL has auto hubs & part time 4wd, so can put in 4H 'on the fly' not that I do that. In 4H can either have centre diff unlocked or locked; (always unlocked on bitumen or hard dirt roads).

B.R.A, sorry if I misunderstood, but if they were saying leave pressures up when off road, they'd better get with the program :o.

Cheers
Allan Mac

[bad_religion_au]

The NL has auto hubs & part time 4wd, so can put in 4H 'on the fly' not that I do that. In 4H can either have centre diff unlocked or locked; (always unlocked on bitumen or hard dirt roads).

B.R.A, sorry if I misunderstood, but if they were saying leave pressures up when off road, they'd better get with the program :o.

Cheers
Allan Mac




yes he certainly needs to get with the program... we were told not to lower tire pressures below 35 psi OFFROAD, and he told us to use a part time 4x4 in high 4 onroad, these are 4byes without a center diff so good luck warrantying your t case

[Mick.]

The NL has auto hubs & part time 4wd, so can put in 4H 'on the fly' not that I do that. In 4H can either have centre diff unlocked or locked; (always unlocked on bitumen or hard dirt roads).

B.R.A, sorry if I misunderstood, but if they were saying leave pressures up when off road, they'd better get with the program :o.

Cheers
Allan Mac




yes he certainly needs to get with the program... we were told not to lower tire pressures below 35 psi OFFROAD, and he told us to use a part time 4x4 in high 4 onroad, these are 4byes without a center diff so good luck warrantying your t case
I can't believe some of these people are aloud to teach others. These people are gonna get someone killed. The sad part about it is if you mentioned their name those pricks would sue you and they could go on teaching people the wrong thing and keep putting peoples lives at risk. >:( There needs to be tighter control on these organisations before its to late. :P

Just so we don't get into trouble for canning the bad ones, can anybody recommend driver training programes they did which were actually well run and instructive?

Thinking about giving my daughter a 4WD training course for her birthday.

[Mick.]

I know Out Of Town 4wd in Barnsley (Newcastle) have a good 2 day coarse for beginners and anther 2 day coarse for the more experienced. My boss did both coarses and said they where good.

[convoy]

You must be VERY careful who you get to do 4WD training. The way the licencing is at present, anybody with cert 4 in workplace trainer and assessor can do 4WD training.
These people are usually retired school teachers with no or very little driver training at all.
It takes very little driver knowledge to get to be a trainer and that is a major problem for all of us.
If you really want close to the best that I've been involved with, go to Vic Widmans courses. He's on the net.
Incidentally I retired from driver training only recently because of the lousy standards that are enforced on proper trainers. Now I only do it for special clients after special requests.
I used to work for a registered Training Organisation, but the standards are too low now and I was ruining my reputation and standards by staying there.
Good luck finding a decent training organisation nowadays.

[rat patrol]

Just so we don't get into trouble for canning the bad ones, can anybody recommend driver training programes they did which were actually well run and instructive?

Thinking about giving my daughter a 4WD training course for her birthday.




G/day HT
Mate One of the best blokes around is Bob Duncan up here in Brissy I have knowen Bob for Many Years his Background is Heavy tranport.He has a very good Driver training programe.from novices to refresher coarses for experanced opperators.
I am my self a driver trainer heavy transport(roadtrain And Bdouble endorsments)
Good luck finding some one mate.
Cheers
Rat

Thanks Rat

Don't mind travelling for such things, enhances the experience...

[MadPaj]

i dont know if any of ya saw this but about a monthish ago there was a thing on young drivers using a car mounted camera (driver cam) in there cars to show the 'real' teen driver.
i was apart of that 6week study i had a camera in my car, i tried and drove normally i only set it off a few times on road for a few little things, it was great cause you could see the off road stuff to on play back(camera records if it detects .6g or greater)

well we were told that the article would be good. but because of a few wankers (10%ish) in ricers doing burnouts just to show off to the camera wie got pulled apart by 60minutes.

was not good

[Dan96XJ]

i dont know if any of ya saw this but about a monthish ago there was a thing on young drivers using a car mounted camera (driver cam) in there cars to show the 'real' teen driver.
i was apart of that 6week study i had a camera in my car, i tried and drove normally i only set it off a few times on road for a few little things, it was great cause you could see the off road stuff to on play back(camera records if it detects .6g or greater)

well we were told that the article would be good. but because of a few wankers (10%ish) in ricers doing burnouts just to show off to the camera wie got pulled apart by 60minutes.

was not good




no good mate, did you drive the 4by on this experiment?....eeeek, even worse ;)

[MadPaj]

no good mate, did you drive the 4by on this experiment?....

yeah i did. the training given by a driving school on the coast (total driver) was really good, we got walked through our mistakes and taught how to aviod them. the boss of total driver wanted the artile to be on how its not the new (p plate) drivers arent really dangerous rather the 20-30yrs age group but 60mins didnt like that idea, they would rather make a highly sensationalized report.

so the idea was to so new drivers as not as bad as everyone reakcons. ;D

also they used some footage(a study in the USA) from overseas and said it was from the australian study. >:(

ohh well thats my bitch session :P

How do you go about getting qualifications to be a 4WD Driver Trainer? I've been interested in doing this for some time now.

Corry

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

It differs from State to State! What State you in?

[MadPaj]

What State you in?
QLD

[Corry]

Anyone know where to find the regulations for this in QLD?

Corry

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

I think the only thing you have to worry about up there is the adult training bit; Certificate IV in Workplace Training and Assessing. It is undergoing an upgrade right at this minute, so check with whichever course you do that it is the 'TAA004' Qual, not the 'D something 3' or the 'BSZ98' course which is the old qual!

There are courses run by all sorts of people, such as DECA, TAFE and heaps or others, check the web on things like 'Train the Trainer'; Workplace Training; and Training Adults. They usually bring up most of the stuff you need. These courses are usually run by these sorts of orgs as a course costing in the vicinity of $700-$1000, maybe more.

I believe that in Queensland that's all you need to set yourself up as a Trainer. Then there is the various courses that you need to get recognised or registered to deliver. You can lock in to Nationally Accreditted Training by chasing Registered Training Organisations, and things such as Outdoor Recreation Certificate. That is the Qual that covers Tour Guides and Trip leaders etc, while there is also an Adventure Standard for Outdoor Recreational Activities. National Training Information Service and Standards Australia are both worth visits on this.

I have been told that the State Association of 4WD Clubs up there in the Sunshine State also do a lot of 'Auspicing', which is recognising people as trainers under their registration as a Registered Training Organisation. They might be worth a visit and talk to as well! Cost to set yourself up is not cheap, $20,000 vicinity??

Have fun, ask lots of questions, don't be put off by the Beauracrats who have tiny bits of power that they exercise to the fullest in making sure that you hafta jump thru hoops in both directions and flaming before you get to the next level, which is the one BELOW the person who can actually answer your question!

[MudSlinger]

I think just join a reputable 4x4 club and all the info on the world of 4wding is at your fingertips,training included.
Just my 2 cents :)

[HeathGQ]

I think just join a reputable 4x4 club and all the info on the world of 4wding is at your fingertips,training included.
Just my 2 cents :)
hear hear....... The Gold Coast 4wd Club offers a driver awareness program to all new members, actually it is a must for all members to have completed it. Winching, and difficult recovery technicues are things that cant be taught. The basics, yes, but experience is the key.

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Joining a 4WD Club isn't going to get you very far towards gaining a Nationally recognised Qualification in Training Adults in the use of 4WD's, or if it does, it'll take a loooonnnnggg time!

[Corry]

I am actually the President of our local 4WD club and am looking at being able to further the options that the club has to offer.
I have done Certificate IV - Workplace Training and Assessment, but that was around 3 years ago, and I am currently involved with alot of training and assessment with my work. I was unaware that Cert IV was going through an upgrade, I'll have to check that the old one still stays current. As there is no expiry date for the course, I would think that if completed previously, you would still be qualified.
I have also completed "Train the Trainer", a very interesting course to do.
I will attempt to track down some info on who is a Registered Training Organisation, and get in touch with them.
I will also make contact with the State Org of Clubs here in Sunny QLD and see what they have to tell me.

Thanks for your help Peter, much appreciated,

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

The old Cert IV will still remain valid for what it is, but if you wish to continue or take up Driver Training, you'll need to get the upgrade under your belt at some stage. I think that the cut off date for "upgrades" as opposed to having to do the whole of the new one is Nov 2006, but could be wrong. What it does mean though, is follow up on it and get the upgrade done while you can, its a few units, but that's better than having to do all 23 again!!! (poetic licence requested for the '23', can't remeber exactly how many, and ain't gonna look it up right now!))

[MAC85]

Corry

Which club are you pressy of?

My real name is Murray Morris and I'm the Qld Co-ordinator of Four Wheel Drive Queensland Training, the RTO training arm of the state organisation. If you need to speak to someone about training in 4WD clubs for National Accreditation, I'm your guy.

The system that is in place in Qld is a club contractor system. Each club that wants to deliver nationally accredited training finds people qualified to train and assess the 4WD competencies and signes an agreement with the state body, effectively becoming a training delivery sub-contractor of the state RTO. The certificates are issued by the state RTO after recommendation by the contractor club.

It's a bit more complex than this, as there are many checks and balances to prevent abuse of the system, but it is designed to allow clubs at a distance from Brisbane to have access to training without the disadvantage of distance.

Get my email from www.fwdqld.com.au (http://www.fwdqld.com.au) and contact me.

MAC85

[Corry]

MAC85 (Murray),
I the President of the Gladstone club, I have sent you an e-mail and will try and make contact with you tomorrow (04.11.05)