To XJ or XJ

[lowbox]

I run a mildly lifted XJ, it's a 96 limited TD, and I have spent quite a lot time under the bonnet. Now I am thinking I want some thing bigger may be ZJ or WJ, but having run a measure over the boot space and with rear seats down, they are not any larger may be three inches or so longer. I could go for a 2000 XJ i.e. series 2 however I have been informed that they are not as tough ? May be I should go for a Surf or a Nissan Patrol ? Any comments or feed back .................
Low Box

12213

[hillsjeep]

Buy a trailer ;)

If you need to go bigger I'd get a patrol over a surf. My last 4wd was a patrol and it was great, ironically I got rid of it as it was too big for my 5' wife to drive. The XJ is perfect for us :)

Oh and I have not heard anything about update XJs being any weaker the pre update models, but they are not any bigger.

[tasar]

the WG/WJ 2.7l CRD is an excellent vehicle - they are now 3-4 years old and should get one a bit cheaper now

[lowbox]

Hi
I looked at trailers, and have seen GoJeeps site with his home built off road trailer. It is a possible route.
I have not decided what to do, as I am still debating the pros and cons of a newer XJ ? I like the interior but I prefer the old style body shape. May be I will have to go to the breakers.
I wanted a longer boot area, hence looking around at other vehicles, this got me thinking. I bought the XJ to replace the Defender, not that I did not like the Defender, it was great, though the lack of comfort factor was a bit of pain especially in winter. The XJ however handles sub zero fine too, but with a heater that actually heats up the vehicle. The problem was Land Rover's reliability problems and their total lack of willingness to do anything about it. I had owned Land Rovers for 2O years, my 1961 Series ran better than the 300tdi. I did like the simplicty if the build and space.
The Yota Cruiser was a possibility, however I am not sure about reliabilty. The Nissan is suppossed be more reliable and cheaper, but thats going on threads on this and other forums. The Surf is IFS as is the Trooper and to be honest I have issues with that, however they do o.k.but a lot harder to mod for off road.
I thought about a WJ or ZJ, but it turns out they are not much bigger in the boot, coil sprung and 3.1 td in the WJ is a poss. You guys did not get the 3.1, it's supposed to be good. The ZJ runs the same 2.5 diesel as the XJ which is frankley just not enough to push the extra 600lbs, Choices, choices ! :)
Any way this brings me back to the XJ, I still am in the research stage and this may not happen till the spring, so the more feed back the better......
Thanks
Lowbox

[Gojeep]

I have not heard of any differences in reliability between the early and late models. Very little changed mechanically so dont know where it would come from?

[wooders]

I could go for a 2000 XJ i.e. series 2 however I have been informed that they are not as tough ?
Errr Low box the Series II XJ started in Sept 97 and there are SFA mechanical changes, and certainly no more reliability or toughness issues. I Suspect you are refering to the 2002 and onward KJ Cherokee which (IMHO) is not as "tough" as the XJ - mostly due to the IFS. but they do not offer (as far as I know) more room than the XJ.

I'd agree with the trailor recommendation ;)

...I thought about a WJ or ZJ, but it turns out they are not much bigger in the boot, coil sprung and 3.1 td in the WJ is a poss. You guys did not get the 3.1, it's supposed to be good. The ZJ runs the same 2.5 diesel as the XJ which is frankley just not enough to push the extra 600lbs, Choices, choices ! :)
Any way this brings me back to the XJ, I still am in the research stage and this may not happen till the spring, so the more feed back the better......
Thanks
Lowbox

Wj is a litte bigger in the boot, but the ZJ isn't. aloth looking at relocating the spare might get you some extra required room.
lastly our here we never got the 2.5L ZJ ...4.0L only....

[lowbox]

Hi
Wooders I don't think the KJ is as good if for one reason only - IFS. It's a bit like the Trooper (Jackaroo), great fourby let down by IFS, though supposedly can made to work o.k. off road. CRDs engines too, but thats another story. Jeep did not pay attention at the off road course .............
Any way the XJ IIs were let down by drive train vibes on lifts, though not a well crafted as your Marcus, the problem seems to be mostly reported on US forums, possibley reflecting use rock crawling, etc. However over here the Jeep engineer I spoke to said that there were some issues with the ECU, though I would be more concerned with the TDs heads, and the continued use by Jeep of the poorly placed header tank.
I am still considering what to do, thanks for the feed back guys, I think due to street parking the trailer will have to wait till later. The options then are XJ II with custom roof rails I have on my current XJ. WJ again not much larger than the XJ but has coils, and no major issues I am aware of.
I have not made up my mind about the offerings from Nissan and Toyota. Though the Cruiser is good, it's a close call and I think the Patrol is better based on my requirements. Trooper and Surf probabley ruled out by IFS issue.
I will let you know how I get on I think I will have just get some test drives in and go from there.
Thanks
LowBox


12376

PS Been messing around with a website when I have time lots more to add if I stick with Jeep .................. :) thecherokee.com (http://thecherokee.com)

[wooders]

Any way the XJ IIs were let down by drive train vibes on lifts, though not a well crafted as your Marcus, the problem seems to be mostly reported on US forums, possibley reflecting use rock crawling, etc.

Errr where did you get the info?
the XJ I is just as susptable to driveline vibs as the XJ II.....Infact the engine/transmission and transfer case are all but identical.
INFACT I could argue that the XJ II is better becuase the rear trasfer case output shaft uses a dry slip yoke which is cheaper and easier to install a SYE to.

[lowbox]

Hi Guys, busy day so a quick bit of feedback.
Wooders, well having read a lot of stuff over the five years I have had the XJ, and most complaints on drive line have been on the series II XJs IMHO. I also talked to a bunch of Jeep engineers and mechanics, and they said they seen more SIIs with driveline problems stock than SIs.
Now this may not be the case and it is down to perception of the problem, however I did some research on the chassis last year, I think it reflects the more taught chassis in the series II makes it more noticeable, though this is just a suggestion, and in fact there is no real difference, as you suggest.
Yes the dry slip maybe easier to install, though I don't belive it makes it any better. Personally on further consideration, I don't think it matters for the type of lift I am talking about doing, if I get a II.
I have been to look at a Patrol today, so the II maybe out the window anyway, we'll shall see. I got to go study the measurements we took and get the XJ sorted for tommorows foray offroad.
Thanks for your feedback guys.
LowBox.
12783

[weewaarianstevo]

LOwey,

Mate I have an XJ series II I am getting rid of for 7K. Long Reg, Good tyres Rubicon 2 inch lift from WOODERS, new motor. Only done 118 on the clock. I cooked the other motor ( don't ask ). Mate the beast is in great condition, Navy Blue and has all new plastic interior etc. I did use to own a brand new 97 Wrangler, hence now a family and a Cherokee is born into the family again. The only down side is that I have three small kids and needed more space in the back, I had to forgo toughness and 4WD ability for space, yeah yeah i bought a jap. Any how mate just a thought, if you were interested that's all.
:drink: 0400197948

[Gojeep]

LOwey,

Mate I have an XJ series II I am getting rid of for 7K. Long Reg, Good tyres Rubicon 2 inch lift from WOODERS, new motor. Only done 118 on the clock. I cooked the other motor ( don't ask ). Mate the beast is in great condition, Navy Blue and has all new plastic interior etc. I did use to own a brand new 97 Wrangler, hence now a family and a Cherokee is born into the family again. The only down side is that I have three small kids and needed more space in the back, I had to forgo toughness and 4WD ability for space, yeah yeah i bought a jap. Any how mate just a thought, if you were interested that's all.
:drink: 0400197948
He is not even in this country so dont think he would be insterested. ;)

[lowbox]

Weewaarianstevo - I am other side of small blue green planet :cool: thanks for the offer though. I do have a set of rear facing Jeep seats for an XJ, but I hate to think what the post would be.............:)

Any thoughts Wooders on my last post ?

Been had a look at a Trooper (Jackaroo) 3.0 diesel this week, not sure if it is a CRD, but looks quite good, seen a bit of life off road, so going to try and get a test drive, see whether I could live with IFS. Been reading up at Expeditions West: 1998 Isuzu Trooper, OME, Old Man Emu, 285/75 R16 (http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Isuzu_Trooper/)
From what I have seen a possible alternative, with the 3.1 TD if not the 3.0 to join the list. Which for those of you who have not followed this:

Keep current XJ or update to SII and add a trailer
Get an alternative larger vehicle
Yota full size Cruiser
Patrol GR
Grand Cherokee prob WJ
Isuzu as mentioned

I am going to go have a think about this, it is getting more confusing not easier. :crazy:

Some one put the kettle on ..........

LowBox

[hillsjeep]

Nah, forget the kettle, open the bar fridge!! That'll make the decision easier ;)

I guess the bottom line is you've got to take them all for a test drive, get feed back from owners of all of the 4wds, check our their techical reviews, consider which is the best deal for the money, which ones are the cheapest and easiest to repair and modify, which have the cheapest running costs - then ingore all that and just buy the Jeep :)

[wooders]

Any thoughts Wooders on my last post ?

Hi Guys, busy day so a quick bit of feedback.
Wooders, well having read a lot of stuff over the five years I have had the XJ, and most complaints on drive line have been on the series II XJs IMHO. I also talked to a bunch of Jeep engineers and mechanics, and they said they seen more SIIs with driveline problems stock than SIs.
Now this may not be the case and it is down to perception of the problem, however I did some research on the chassis last year, I think it reflects the more taught chassis in the series II makes it more noticeable, though this is just a suggestion, and in fact there is no real difference, as you suggest.
Yes the dry slip maybe easier to install, though I don't belive it makes it any better. Personally on further consideration, I don't think it matters for the type of lift I am talking about doing, if I get a II.
I have been to look at a Patrol today, so the II maybe out the window anyway, we'll shall see. I got to go study the measurements we took and get the XJ sorted for tommorows foray offroad.
Thanks for your feedback guys.
LowBox.
12783

Ok when you say series II do you mean 97-02 chero?
Because overal there was fairly minimal driveline changes (well in Aust) - but the main crappy problem is the Dana35c which was wide spread over a lot of the XJ years not just Series I or II...

[lowbox]

Well as you know I have been looking at what to replace the XJ with, this was partly as I found that we just did not have enough room, with the management taking everything but the kitchen sink.

I had a drive of a 110 at the weekend for a bit of diplomacy, I now remember why we got rid of ours :) Any way the Mrs said no bloody way or words to that effect...... the management has spoken ! She promptly followed this up by saying she wanted to keep the XJ, I said some thing about row locks and took the country lanes home.

I have not made up MY mind yet, as I have not test driven all the vehicles. I have to get our XJ sorted as the starter motor is not engaing properly, it may have thrown a cog, I just hope it is not the bloody fly wheel.

Wooders - yes it could be the 35C, which I have I think with LSD, I had tought about up grading when I did the suspension, but decided to stick with the LSD until I can afford locker, if we keep the XJ. I know that the 35C is not tough enough for the guys in the US who go clambering over rocks, they moan alot about it, but I doubt I will be doing that even in France.

It still stands as follows

Keep current XJ or update to SII and add a trailer
Yota full size Cruiser - require further info.
Patrol GR - sat in one a couple of weeks go, was not that impressed.
Grand Cherokee prob WJ - next on the list to go look at.
Isuzu - bit cheap, but long lasting.

Thanks, more soon.............

LB

[Gojeep]

If you have enough space day to day, why would you want to haul around a lot of extra weight of a bigger 4wd the rest of the time? That is why I have gone the trailer route.

[lowbox]

Hi GoJeep - Well I have been having a thunk, which is always dangerous :)

Yes I have small amount of off road gear, and tools in the back. I did carry quite alot more in the 110 the first year we had it, however I found that I did not need to in the winter, and the following summer I purchased a Brownchurch rack which was expedition spec. This solved the problem of the camping gear with out a trailer, being away most weekends in the summer saved a lot of messing about. Everthing was sorted out in to Curver boxes which went on the roof, or soft bags which went in the back with the sleeping gear. This allowed for easy pullover stops, throw the kit in the front, and crash out on the air bed with no problems.

I was up at a garage today, it was bloody freezing, to do some measuring up. I measured a Troopy (Jackaroo), a Surf, a Pajareo, did not get to measure a Cruiser as there was not one there. What this showed was that all were not much wider, thought the the Jack, Patrol and Paj did have more vertical space. In reality they are no better than a WJ and only three inches longer than a XJ, bizzarley the X-Trail :crazy:is longer inside with seats folded and like the XJ the swab can be removed, which is not possible on any of the vehicles I have mentioned, reducing the load capacity.
This is down purley and simply down to bad design and not excuseable. With the exception of the Surf, the others are all aimed at the working buyer, and need to be capable of carring many different types of loads, only the 110 could actually do this, but then the comfort factor is zero.
This left me with the distinct feeling may be I should keep the XJ....................

I tried using a trailer, light duty car trailer this year and it worked quite well, and even survived a short trip off road, but the problem would be for longer or more involved off road use.This is where I started to carry out investigations for a better solution, including vehicles. Your trailer design looks like a possibilty, however the cost of steel here would make it cheaper to build one from another XJ on current quotes! I am going to look at prices for C section (channel) as well as RHS and SHS in your drawings, and I am going to have to learn to use a mig welder. The other possibility would be a Sankey trailer, thought the wheel stud pattern would need to be modified to suit the Jeeps. Either way I need to work on a rear bumper design to have a suitable hitch point, assuming it need to be at bumper height ?

I have a pic below of current mount, bottom of pic is inline with tyre on tramac. Rear center of wheel to wheel arch measurement currently 18'' unladen + spare tire.

The XJ is in need of some TLC at present, stater probs, however I will come back to this after the Christmas break. So I am still thunking ......

Bloody Jeeps ......

Cheers
LowBox

14431

[lowbox]

If this uploads ok Marcus a better pic of current hitch mount
14432

[lowbox]

14460
;)
Well this is a drop hitch I used for the car camping trailer we tried, so for future reference I took a pick going over one of the grass knolls, which is part of track I sometimes use to get to a site we camp at.

The drop plate was fitted to the hitch pictured above, previous post. I tried the same knoll without the plate and the hitch just cleared it. I realised that if I had the trailer this would not be the case and it would probabley have popped, being on a 50mm ball.

The Army use a rotating hitch, often know as a NATO hitch, which forms a ring which clips into the solid ring of the Sankey trailer. Designed for off road use, this may be a possible answer. However the height of the hitch would appear to be the same height of rear cross member on a 110 LR, so I will have to go and see some old friends with a measuring stick........

Once I have some further info I will let you know.

LowBox

[Gojeep]

Have you seem the Treg hitch I use? It is a great design and absorbs vibration from the trailer and stops it being felt through the towbar.

[Reece Watson]

As we all probably know, Jeep used the 4.0 litre straight 6 engine in their cherokees and wranglers for about 16 years in a row. They did this because of the reliability and strength of the engine. So from a 96 XJ (Which I own) to a 2001 XJ, I can't see that there would be any difference.

[lowbox]

Hi Hills, GJ and Wooders, it's been a while, I decided to keep the XJ. I could not find anything that grabbed me. There were a couple of moments when I nearly went for an old Yota but in the end, the trailer looked the best option.............

In the spring, before the snow :), I took all the carpet up I could get to so as to do any rust and the were a couple of bits that needed welding right in the back corners of the floor pan, bizzare. Then having decided to take another look at the suspension, and trailer situation I stuck with it, although there is fine tuning on bumpstops and shocks to do, I settled for a budget lift, saving pennies for the trailer which will be next.

I built the rear pack up to five leaves, and used a poly spacer on the front. Tyres are on, 30X9.50X15 Maxxis Trepador replacing the worn MTRs, and disscos rejigged. Custom rear hitch fitted and towing electrics.

I have got a week off coming up, and although it is nothing but bull dust at the moment, wet weather is due. I want to finish doing the rust, and suspension, then on to the trailer. More on that on the next post .........



20877

[hillsjeep]

Great choice!! :thumb:

XJ's looking pretty good! Do they salt the roads over there? I haven't heard of anyone having rust problems in their XJ's over here.

[wooders]

Good man - a well setup trailer is a really good alternative.
Not only can you drag more gear wothout overloading the XJ, but when you get to the camp spot you can unhitch and explore without lugging your gear everywhere :)

[junglejuice]

We have a '95 Xj sport and when we went looking for one we looked at the Zj as I liked the idea of coils all round plus disc all round but I found that the Xj is bigger in the back than the Zj and there is more mod options readily available for the Xj plus I think the Zj looks more dates than the Xj pre-update which I personally prefer to the update as I feel that trying round off a square with slightly rounded accessories just doesn't really work, for me anyway.
We carry 2 fridges with drawers and a compressor and a battery all in the rear and all removable with the spare still inside but having an offroad camper trailer makes the world of difference....