D40 ST-X Navara on Gas

[yammysj]

Hi all,

i am new to this forum, i currently own a 92 SR5 Extra Cab Hilux and i am thinking of upgrading to an ST-X Navara, but i am unsure if i should get either a turbo diesel or V6 Petrol and put it on gas.

What i am trying to find out is if the V6 can handle a duel fuel setup, if anyone here has this setup on their Navara etc.

Any help would be greatly appreciated:D

Cheers Rhys Wehr

[montana]

i have a diesel ,but have herd gas is not recommended for the v6

[navara-au]

Hi Rhys
I have the v6, but haven't converted to gas. I was going to when the rebate first came out, but because I bought my truck through my business I dont get a rebate, so that canned that idea.
I believe that they can only install a relatively small tank (about 50 or 60 ltrs) which wont get you too far. Apart from that it wouldn't be a bad option. I'm not sure if running gas will have any negative affects on the engine. I did ask Nissan and they said it should be alright, but any damage to the motor that can be attributed to the gas wont come under there warranty.

The v6 in the Navara is a great engine (198 kw and 385 nm)and is easily the most powerful in its class. Goes like the clappers, but its very thirsty.

Economically your probably better off getting the deisel, but the v6 is a lot of fun.

[Kickars2]

Hi all,

i am new to this forum, i currently own a 92 SR5 Extra Cab Hilux and i am thinking of upgrading to an ST-X Navara, but i am unsure if i should get either a turbo diesel or V6 Petrol and put it on gas.

What i am trying to find out is if the V6 can handle a duel fuel setup, if anyone here has this setup on their Navara etc.

Any help would be greatly appreciated:D

Cheers Rhys Wehr

Hey Rhys

have you had a thought about getting a diesel and running it on gas??
cause now they have foudn out that they can run diesel and gas togeather.
and you would make easy 20% to 35% power and torque on the dyno but also getting a better fuel economy as they run 2 thirds diesel and 1 third gas and it brings the burn rate up so your engine is more efficient.
im going to get it done to my D22 navara str

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

All that extra power and torque, Kickars2, comes about simply because the engine is burning about 20-35% more fuel, ('cos you only get the extra when the gas is there; run out of gas, back to just diesel, back to normal power & torque!) and the only reason it's cheap power is that the extra fuel is gas and at the moment it's cheaper than diesel! And you don't really get a great improvement in fuel economy 'cos you are still burning 20-35% MORE fuel than you were before!! The improvement in the usage of diesel alone is really quite minimal! So while there is a bit of a benefit NOW if you do a diesel gas addition, that may not be the case in 2012! And regardless of how little extra the gas costs you, there is no denying that you are simply burning MORE FUEL to get more power & torque!

Converting a Petrol engine to Gas only or even to Dual Fuel is a totally diffrnt matter! There, you totally exchange 1 fuel for the other, and in the case of gas, you normally get worse fuel economy than you do on petrol, but at the moment, gas is just over 1/2 the price, so you go just as far for noticeably less money out of your pocket! Again, not better fuel economy, but at least you aren't using both types of fuel simultaneously in the false premise that you are getting extra power and torque for nothing!!

[Big Boots]

From the Nissan Australia website -


Nissan continues to place a very high priority on effective environmental management and has taken a comprehensive approach to reducing CO2 emissions, developing fuel-efficient engines, highly efficient transmission systems, lightweight, high strength vehicle bodies as well as more aerodynamic vehicles with low air resistance. Examples of advancement by Nissan with this type of technology are evident in some recent new releases such as 350Z, Maxima and Murano.
Can my vehicle run on fuel containing ethanol?
Nissan vehicles manufactured from 1 January 2004 onwards are capable of operation on ethanol blends up to E10 (10% ethanol), providing the following conditions are met:

The fuel used (including ethanol-blend) meets the requirements of the Australian Fuel Quality Standards,
A credible history of servicing as per Nissan's recommended service schedule can be shown, and
Blending of the ethanol component to the petroleum component of the fuel has been properly made for example at a fuel refinery (ie there is no "splash"-blending of the fuel).For Nissan vehicles manufactured prior to 1 January 2004, although capable of operation on ethanol-blended ULP, Nissan does NOT recommend the use of ethanol-blended fuel in these vehicles.
Can my diesel Nissan vehicle run on fuel containing biodiesel?
EN5901 (http://standards.mackido.com/en/en-standards24_view_6599.html), upon which the Australian Fuel Quality Standards (AFQS)2 (http://www.deh.gov.au/atmosphere/fuelquality/standards/index.html) are based, specifies that no more than 5% BIODIESEL3 (http://standards.mackido.com/en/en-standards24_view_3461.html) may be mixed to DIESEL4 (http://www.deh.gov.au/atmosphere/fuelquality/standards/diesel/index.html) fuel.
Nissan specifies that DIESEL fuel should be used in its diesel-engined vehicles.
Nissan can not recommend the usage of fuel other than DIESEL in its diesel-engined vehicles.
Can my vehicle run on LPG?
Nissan does not manufacture, supply or source LPG equipment for its range of vehicles imported into Australia.
LPG has quite a number of differences to petrol such as different combustion temperatures, different fuel consumption characteristics and exhaust emissions, just to name a few.
Therefore, although capable of operating on LPG, Nissan does NOT recommend the use of LPG fuel in its petrol-engine vehicles. It should also be noted that Nissan does not warrant the installation of LPG systems to any of its vehicles nor is it responsible for any failure attributable to or damage resultant from, any such installation.

[yammysj]

thanks for the reply's guys, look like the duel fuel is possible but at my own risk. i will keep a look out for someone that may have this setup and see what they think.

[yammysj]

What sort of milage have you guys been getting out of your D40's.
Petrol/Diesel, Auto/Manual, City/Highway.

Cheers

[Terry]

i know its not nissan, but my v6 toyota on gas does 16.5l/100km high way, 18l/100km city and 21l/100km towing.
thats cheaper to run than any TD currently available in a 4wd today where i live. happy as larry

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

What do you mean - 'cheaper to run'?? You don't spend as much on fuel? or are you suggesting that most diesels get worse fuel economy?? 'Cos I know of a few who get better fuel economy than that!! If they aren't available where you live (where is that, BTW?) then there could well be a market niche opening!

And the significant point about diesels is that they are consistant. Doesn't make much difrnce between road or off road, loaded or un-loaded, they still do better fuel economy than most petrols! With petrols, the harder the work, the more fuel it uses; and that is a much less significant issue with diesels!! PLus the torque is from idle, so that they are better suited to low and slow driving & lugging, and they'll keep going in circumstances that any petrol or gas or both vehicle would be stalling out all the time, or at the very least using masses of fuel, ie more than 100l/100 km!!

[Terry]

peter, 'cheaper to run' means less dollars spent on fuel per 100kms.

LPG was around 53c a litre today (gets to 49c on the other side of town)
diesel was $1.30

towing on LPG 21L/100km = 21x0.53 = $11.13
city on LPG 18L/100km = 18x0.53 = $9.54
highway on LPG 16.5L/100km = 16.5x0.53 = $8.74


to see what a diesel would need to do L/100km to equal that, we divide the above running costs by the price of diesel


towing $11.10/$1.30 = 8.5 litres per 100km
city $9.54/$1.30 = 7.3 litres per 100km
highway $8.74/$1.30 = 6.7 litres per 100km

not all diesels make good torque from idle either. i hear the D40 has poor off boost torque, and the older D22 model which ive spent a bit of time in did nothing till 1800rpm

why do you want to know where i live? are you coming to get me?!!

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Terry, many people have all sorts of different meanings associated with the term 'Cheaper to run'. So many possible different interpretations that it really is meaningless unless you tell your readers what you actually DO mean! And your definition of 'less dollars spent on fuel per 100kms' is just one possible meaning that gives a completely different slant to the other possible interpretations! I wonder how many readers had taken your term to mean something that was meaningful to them but not quite what you meant? The overall total cost of running that vehicle for a year (or other term) is one possible interpretation that comes to mind!

My point was that while there might not be many TD's out there that actually achieve 8.5l/100km fuel economy towing, or even around the 6.7 litres per 100km on the highway, most diesels get fuel economy at least as good if not better than the figures you claim as your highway figures for your v6, BUT THE DIESEL USAGE RATES DON'T VARY MUCH AT ALL between highway, towing, 4WDing, & city driving; so the TD that does better than 16.5l/100km, probably around 14.5l/100km, or possibly even as good as 12.5litres/100 km on the highway run is very likely to STILL do 12l/100km towing, or STILL do 12l/100km on the pretty tough 4Wheeling ( a particular 'Cross Australia East to West in 15 Days' expedition comes to mind!) and it'll STILL do 12.5l/100km on the high speed dirt, and on the bitumen between Alice & Darwin & wherever! And Disco's aren't the only TD vehicles to be in that ballpark, even if they are just on the leading edge!

And even if the ALL the TD's I know don't quite get that sort of fuel economy, MOST TD vehicles that I know of that get normal fuel economy for their type will only use about 100 litres of fuel to cover the 700 odd km between Oodnadatta and Birdsville!! Or an average of somewhere around 14-14.5l/100 km! Many manage that same trip on LESS, the best being as little as about 80 litres!! (Hey, isn't that pretty close to that towing economy you worked out Terry?) And I don't know of even ONE petrol/gas vehicle that can manage that!!

Personally, I haven't met the Petrol/gas vehicle yet that has been able to do that trip on less than about 120 litres, and most use up around 150litres all up (90 odd litres of petrol and 60 litres of gas!) Lots of the P/Gas vehicles use a fair bit more! BUT a small additional problem is that the last gas was available at Port Augusta, and that was a few days back!! So the gas ran out long ago!!

And since the gas ran out days ago, the 'CHEAPNESS' (under your interpretation) becomes a moot point, you can't get any, the car isn't running, or it's being towed! And it doesn't hafta be out near the Simpson, it can be within just a few hours of Melbourne, and who CARES that you got the 70 litres of gas that you just used the last of for 55 cents per litre, while I paid $1.33 for my diesel!! The 95 litres of diesel I got are way more likely to keep me going for the next 660km of 4Wheeling, while the 70 litres of gas you've used PLUS the 55 litres of Unleaded at $1.24 may well only get you 585km (maybe not even that) once that little stubby lever is pulled!

And why do I want to know where you live? Simply because the terrain you live in can make a significant difference to the sort of fuel economy that your vehicle will get!! Most Petrol/Gas vehicles that I've encountered usually react badly to steep hilly terrain and if you lived in the Vic High Country or even the Adelaide Hills and still got that sort of fuel economy in stubby lever terrain, I'd be surprised! You do seem a bit defensive about the area you live in tho?? What's got you worried?

So I'll still stick to my diesel as a long distance and remote area tourer, BUT I might consider a petrol/gas vehicle if I didn't ever go too far from a gas servo! Shame that the gas supplying servo's seem to be linked inextricably to bitumen roads, just not quite the place I like to spend a lot of time 4Wheeling!!

[Terry]

to be honest, when i posted the fuel consumption figures of my V6 on gas and then stated it was 'cheaper to run than any current 4wd diesel', i assumed it was obvious i was talking about '$/100km'. anyone with a $2 calculator from Woolworths and a general idea of the price of gas/diesel at their local servo can work it out for themselves.
apart from servicing (why would i bother posting the consumption figures?) i honsetly dont know what else 'cheaper to run' might have meant?
im sorry if i was misleading someone!

as interesting as your outback stories are, sadly it doesnt apply to me.... and thats who i was referring to when i first posted. myself and no one else since i have no idea exactly what others are using their vehicle for. no blanket statements from me.

i drive around 40,000kms a year on LPG around sydney for work, and maby do 1000kms true off road work. most of the building sites are broken ground and 4wd is the only option when it rains.

i don't venture too far away from the bowser when i go off-road either. but even with my limited 110 litre (total) gas tank, i can do around 480 kms off road. if i do run out of gas, i can go another 400 kms on my spare petrol tank if needed.

i have an injected LPG system. the engine runs just like it does on petrol. no stalling, no backfiring...... hilly terrain has no ill effects on engine operation either.

each to their own, and do what is best for you and your hip pocket!

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

OK, your last post explains it all, pretty much! Thank you for making it all clear.

Enjoy your 4WD!

[Terry]

ill look this thread up again in one year after johnny has hooked even more people into his 'goverment grant/LPG rebate' deal and starts charging $1.00+/litre for the stuff!

[yammysj]

come on give me an update has anyone got one of these V6 suckers on gas yet? Let me know

[GRPABT1]

All that extra power and torque, Kickars2, comes about simply because the engine is burning about 20-35% more fuel, ('cos you only get the extra when the gas is there; run out of gas, back to just diesel, back to normal power & torque!) and the only reason it's cheap power is that the extra fuel is gas and at the moment it's cheaper than diesel! And you don't really get a great improvement in fuel economy 'cos you are still burning 20-35% MORE fuel than you were before!! The improvement in the usage of diesel alone is really quite minimal! So while there is a bit of a benefit NOW if you do a diesel gas addition, that may not be the case in 2012! And regardless of how little extra the gas costs you, there is no denying that you are simply burning MORE FUEL to get more power & torque!


Although the more power gained would mean less throttle needed and hence less deisel used and a the cheaper price of gas making up the difference. I would say the savings would be very slight but still a saving if 30% more power is available (which is bloody considerable) and the extra power available would be a blessing when needed. Worth a try anyway for the extra power IMO.

[Terry]

come on give me an update has anyone got one of these V6 suckers on gas yet? Let me know

looks like you are still keen on the LPG idea. if i was you id start calling some of the bigger LPG installers in the larger cities like sydney and ask if they have done a D40. they might pass on the customers number to you and you can ask them yourself.

graham smith who writes ASK SMITHY in the daily telegraph seems to have alot of contacts in the industry every time a question comes up about LPG. maby send him an email?

ive dealt with IMPCO and PARNELL over the phone a couple of times. IMPCO were 'okay' to deal with, but PARNELL were brilliant. if anyone knows how the D40 deals with LPG, it would be them. ---> Parnell (http://www.parnell.com.au/)

[yammysj]

cheers thanks for your reply terry, i will give them a buzz

[flemj]

Yammysj

I drive a D40 Diesel. I believe its great. If you look at a D40 you will find it tough to put gas on as there not much room.

I would recomend a diesel, but I wouldnt recomend you stick it on gas, to expensive, crowded engine bay, where are you going to put a tank?

[Yom]

If you relocate the spare tyre you could easily fit one of those doughnut tanks under the tray.

I don't see the point when a D40 turbo diesel will get you so far while using so little fuel?

Cheers

[Terry]

having a dual cab ute too, if you go ahead with it i would be fitting a tank in the tray between the wheel wells. i get a 110l tank in my hilux, but looking at my freinds D40 you would get much more capacity than that with the room available, and still have it under the lip of the tray.
moving the spare from under the truck means you will fit a smaller tank and still have to do something with the spare wheel.

[Auchenblae]

So who has fitted an LPG system to a D40 petrol ?