suspension sag

[TexGQ]

Hi folks, wonder if anyone has any ideas on this one, have a 95 GQ, have got a 50mm body lift along with tough dog hd shocks and springs. The spring where the last bit added and since putting them on about 1800kms ago every thing has been fine but in the middle of the week i was walking towards the pat and noticed that the drivers side had sagged. measured everything up and the whole side has gone down by about 50mm. Have checked all the mounts shocks springs blocks and everything i can think of but cant find a reason for the sag. Anybody got any ideas? Im baffled

[Bazza_rips]

I did post a reply here but i can't read and have made an ass of myself so i deleted it :D

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

That would rate a visit back to the place that supplied (& fitted?) the TD shocks and coils. There should have been a fitting sheet filled in showing the pre fit height and the post fit heights, and 'significant variation' from that post fit height is usually a warranty claim, I think within 20,000km or 2 years, but you'd hafta check on that!

Take it back tho, don't get suckered into doing anything to it until the supplier/fitter has had a look, you don't want to void that warranty!

[TexGQ]

Cheers Peter, springs are less than 4 weeks old and i fitted them myself, took the car back to opp loc and theyve asked me to refit the originals so they can send them off to be tested and see what comes back

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Firstly, did OL fit them or you? If they did, they should be doing the removal/refit etc. If you did then fine, over to you, but otherwise...

If you haven't taken them off yet, make your own measurement sheet, with the measurements taken from the lowest point of the wheel rim up to the point directly above on the wheel arch/body. Probly a good idea to sit it on level ground first, then bounce (hard) on each corner of the vehicle and let it settle proply first, then measure and mark up a record - get someone to do it with you so there can be no mistakes at all. If you haven't got a copy of the fitting sheet that OL took when they put them on, get one! And then when you've put the original's back on, take another set of measurements and mark up another sheet! Keep the whole lot together and compare them as the process goes along! You should be able to get a suspension set that doesn't settle that quick! I KNOW that there is a TD product available that will do what you want without settling!

And there are rumours around that they (TD) are having some quality control issues, but as far as I know, at this stage they are just rumours, probly grown out of ancient history info. They DID have some QC issues about 3-4 years ago now, and a batch of shocks came out with dud seals, but they chased down as many of the purchasers as they could find, and replaced all that came from the batches concerned, regardless where how they found out. They had, around the same time, some steel supply issues too, and there were a few coils springs that weren't up to par, but all of them should've been caught before they made it to the buying public. There were a few that made it out into the 4WD world for various testing and development reasons, but they shouldn't have been available to people who didn't expect them to sag or fail!

So for yours to be sagging like they have, summat is wrong. Either they've fitted up the wrong spring, there is a really abnormal load on that side of your car, or you've managed to get a dud spring or two!

[et4wd]

Hey Tex,
To much airbourne at Loveday hey?:D
Let me know how you get on with it all, seems weird they should sag so quick must be something funny going on:confused:

Hope you have some luck with it all..............OH i forgot to say, GO Dobinsons!!!:D :D

Steve.

[TexGQ]

OK, next puzzle, I've taken the TD springs out, so opp loc can have them checked, and replaced them with the standards, so the hieght has dropped all round but the drivers side is still significantly lower than the passenger side. I'm fairly sure that the shocks arent duff cause they are still providing resistance and I dont have that trampoline ride you get when a shock goes. Been underneath and cant see any obvious crackss or breaks and everything appears to still be in line, so where do I look now?

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Ooops! Doesn't sound good! Crawl underneath the car, lay on your back, and look up! Do that down the back of the car, just in front of the rear axle, and peer very, very, closely at the top mounts for the coils! They have been known to bend upwards into the floor of the body there, and/or even tear out of the chassis at that point, so give it a good going over! Check every weld, seam, fold and make sure that the inner most section of the curved coil seat is about 40mm below the floor above it!

If there is nothing there, look very carefully at the rear arms, both Upper and Lower, checking for bends or cracks in the arms anywhere, and bends or cracks where the arms connect to the bushes. Any bends in the arms may well give you a droop in one side, and bends and/or breaks & cracks etc can let the length of those arms vary significantly, giving a lopsided appearance. Also run a tape measure from the front wheel centre to the rear whee centre on each side. They should be near as dammit identical!

Anything else? Not off the top of my head. The front shock mounts have been known to break free of the top suspension mount, but that shouldn't impact on the height! Only coils or coils mounts will change that! You could check that the coils are all seated properly into/onto the top hat arrangements at the bottom, and that they are all seated properly around the raised ring in the centre of the top mount. Summat else, a front coil(s) might have either broken on the bottom mount or spiral/coil, or collapsed into the centre of the spiral/coil immediately above. That make sense? I'd guess that damage/collapse/breakage up the back end is more likely to make a 50mm difference, or make significant changes to the apparent height, while the same damage etc up front on only one side won't necessarily make that much difrnce! One last thing, measure the height from the ground to the axle tube out alongside the wheel, then in by the pumpkin just before the flare starts to extend down towards the ground. Do the same on the other side of that diff, and the same on the other end. Or put a straight edge along the axles both front and rear and see if there is any possibility of a bend either in the axle tubes, the diff housing, or the ball joints on the end of the front knuckles, maybe only on one side! That sort of bent axle/diff housing would explain the sag!?

Hope you find the problem, and that it isn't chassis or diff damage! You haven't been jumping the tops of sand dunes lately have you? Too much Loveday's air?? Summat like that?

[et4wd]

OK, next puzzle, I've taken the TD springs out, so opp loc can have them checked, and replaced them with the standards, so the hieght has dropped all round but the drivers side is still significantly lower than the passenger side. I'm fairly sure that the shocks arent duff cause they are still providing resistance and I dont have that trampoline ride you get when a shock goes. Been underneath and cant see any obvious crackss or breaks and everything appears to still be in line, so where do I look now?


Did you put the springs back in the right way?

The GQ's have 2 different size springs, the bigger one goes on the drivers side and the shorter on the passengers side, if you have them ass-about that will cause the rig to to be on a MAJOR lean to the drivers side as that is where all the weight is!

I know this is painfull but pull them out again and stand them against each other and put the taller one on the drivers side, there will only be a small difference in size but a big difference in height;)

Good luck blokey!

Steve.

[grimbo]

Hey Tex,
To much airbourne at Loveday hey?:D
Let me know how you get on with it all, seems weird they should sag so quick must be something funny going on:confused:

Hope you have some luck with it all..............OH i forgot to say, GO Dobinsons!!!:D :D

Steve.
if he did actually get airborne that could be the problem, he may have bent or broken something major. I'd be doing a thorough check of the chassis for cracks or bends, also trailing arms, coil buckets and body mounts to make sure they are all ok

[TexGQ]

Hi Guys, I did get airbourne at Loveday, but would that not have shown up at the time instead of 800kms later? Have checked all the arms, buckets and mounts and they seem fine, will check the chassis rail in daylight tomorrow after ive found the coolant leak that sprung itself on me today. Also checked the length of the spring and their is a difference which I didnt know about before, but i think I'll try and get straightened up on the standard springs 1st.
Thanks for the help and advice guys,really appreciate it and I'll keep you posted on my searching tomorrow

[4bdan]

Hi Guys, I did get airbourne at Loveday, but would that not have shown up at the time instead of 800kms later? Have checked all the arms, buckets and mounts and they seem fine, will check the chassis rail in daylight tomorrow after ive found the coolant leak that sprung itself on me today. Also checked the length of the spring and their is a difference which I didnt know about before, but i think I'll try and get straightened up on the standard springs 1st.
Thanks for the help and advice guys,really appreciate it and I'll keep you posted on my searching tomorrow

Not always mate, you may have cracked something, but it can take time to actually break or bend before you realise somethings wrong...

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Yeah, a bit of airborne stuff could put just enough of a curve in a trailling arm that it's not easily noticed, but it drops that side 50mm without an issue! You need a straight edge to check them, doing it by eye isn't going to work!! More likely be a rear lower arm, but not impossible to be a rear upper. Good searching.

[TexGQ]

Think I've found it, theres a bend in the rear nearside lower arm, not much of a bend. So I measured the distances between hubs and its showing up 15mm shorter on that side. I take it thats due to the bend?
Correct me if I'm wrong, seeing as the wheelbase is no longer equal would this make the car act like a table with 1 short leg and it will rock across the axis of rear left to front right and with the majority of the weight being at the front it would appear to be a lot lower on the front right?
think thats the description i'm looking for

[et4wd]

That could be it fella, Im getting some missle-proof lower arms made up this weekend im hoping!
Check out my thread in Members soon as i will put up some pics of them when i get them back!

Oh and well done on the find!!! good to see!.....we'll turn you into a racer before long!

Steve.

[TexGQ]

I wouldnt take much but i think the other half might half something to say about it