buying first 4wd- need help

[rowand]

G'day guys- it's taken me bloody ages to find a forum like this-nice one. I'm planning to buy a 4wd in the near future- probably going to spend anything up to 15 G (hopefully a bit less). i'm currently in the research phase-test driving anything i can get my hands on, ::) reading mags etc. I really want something i can sleep in which limits me to a wagon i guess. been looking mainly at 60 series which i like coz they're good value at the moment but they're probably a bit heavy on fuel. I'm from W.A so it needs to be decent in the sand and i go north a fair bit so what's the deal with water crossings? are petrols ok? what's better- a V6 4runner or a 2.8 diesel? do the diesels come in a stock turbo model? or are 4runners crap in general? help!!!! ???

[crusher]

If you can get a hold of 4WD Monthly issue no 69 July/August, Roothy gives his 10 best second hand fourbys. They range from a Nissan GQ to a Lada Niva and have the respectve price ranges as well. It really depends what you want to do and what storage you require as to what type of 4WD to buy. If you purchase a naturally aspirated diesel have a turbo fitted later. I owned a 2.7 Toyota Hilux SRF petrol and it was gutless. Power about 108kw and torque 235Nm. I assume the the Toyota you mentioned has similar power. With sand driving you probably wouldn't encounter too many problems with the surf as long as your tyre pressures were lowered to about 16-18psi

Try and get something with good torque as that is crucial for four wheel driving. I prefer diesel over petrol now after having owned both. It is also cheaper on fuel

[rowand]

thanks crusher- trying to steer clear of imports like the surf- i only hear bad things about parts and insurance and my mechanic tells me not to touch them as well. apparently surfs crack heads if you give them a hard time which i am planning to do. Would a turbo diesel use more or less fuel? i've heard varying reports. I also hear that turboing a 2.8 diesel gives pretty good results but is the toyota 2.8 built to take it? i'm considering a V6 forerunner only due to the lack of power of the diesel. So many decisions!! :P

[HnM]

My parents own a 2.8 std diseasel and I own a 2.8 turbo (aftermarket) diseasel. Both hilux's, mine has 33' tyres and theirs has 29' tyres. Mine still leaves em at the lights. The turbo makes it more carlike on the road but don't expect commadore type acceleration either.

[rowand]

Your 2.8 sounds good HnM- how long has it been turbo? which uses more fuel yours or your parents? had any problems with the lux engine handling the power increase? i'm chasing good reliability coz i'm planning some trips to the kimberlys and pilbara etc.

[2 BRUTAL]

if you plan on heading north thru WA forget a petrol 4 Runner unless you want to tow a trailer full of fuel behind you.
only the 2.8l surfs had head cracking troubles not the 3L
go for a lwb GQ 4.2 with after market turbo and you will probably get 1 with long range fuel tank as well

[HnM]

The 3L's seem to take very well to turbo's so long as you don't pump the boost past 12psi, apparently most toyota diesels won't handle much more.
I had a problem with a dodgy engine rebuild but it has been proven to be the building of the engine and not the turbo.

Mine currently runs 7psi which gives me more power and a secure feeling about having forced induction but I have had it to 13 before.

The previous engine should have never been rebuilt(long story), it didn't need rebuilding. However it was turboed at 130,000klms and I had it rebuilt *shudder* at 290,000klms and it would have lasted at least another 100,000 if not more.

Hope that helps mate ;)

[HnM]

if you plan on heading north thru WA forget a petrol 4 Runner unless you want to tow a trailer full of fuel behind you.
only the 2.8l surfs had head cracking troubles not the 3L
go for a lwb GQ 4.2 with after market turbo and you will probably get 1 with long range fuel tank as well


I thought it was the 2.4ltr surf engine (and hilux) that was known for cracking mate. In fact I'm sure of it.

[crusher]

The 2.7 petrol hilux I owned did about 525km to a 65 litre tank about 8litrre per km. The Turbo diesel patrol I have now does about 750km to a 95 litre tank so fuel consumption is very similar. Obviously the diesel motor is a better option if you are going to be doing plenty of km's or intend owning the vehicle for a while. Resale is usually better also, regards, crusher





thanks crusher- trying to steer clear of imports like the surf- i only hear bad things about parts and insurance and my mechanic tells me not to touch them as well. apparently surfs crack heads if you give them a hard time which i am planning to do. Would a turbo diesel use more or less fuel? i've heard varying reports. I also hear that turboing a 2.8 diesel gives pretty good results but is the toyota 2.8 built to take it? i'm considering a V6 forerunner only due to the lack of power of the diesel. So many decisions!! :P

[rowand]

thanks guys this is all really helpful stuff- yes it is the 2.4 turbo surfs that crack heads (called the '2LT' engine to be precise) they don't come in a 2.8 but the really new ones come in a 3.0L (but they're crap anyway). HnM- did you have some other problem with your previous engine that caused you to think it needed rebuilding? could it have been much simpler to fix? i am interested in turboing a 2.8 as i'm sure they will be much cheaper to run than the 4.2- although crusher your 4.2 sounds quite acceptable on fuel (about 22 miles per gallon) for a car that size- would a GQ be a better option than a 60 series? i hear GQs are real tough (made from light truck components) but they rattle like a blender full of ball bearings. Could someone please tell me which gets better fuel economy- turbo or NA? (I'm assuming it's NA - i've heard that turboing an engine makes it more fuel efficient, but i suppose that would be relative to the increase in power). a naturally aspirated GQ may be a good option for now.

[rowand]

P.S- just had a thought-would a patrol be a bit heavy for sand dunes? i have been told that before. anyone know which is lighter- GQ or 60 series?

[crusher]

Mine is a 3.0 litre not 4.2. I think you'll find if you check that previous issue I mentioned that the GQ was Roothy's top pick




thanks guys this is all really helpful stuff- yes it is the 2.4 turbo surfs that crack heads (called the '2LT' engine to be precise) they don't come in a 2.8 but the really new ones come in a 3.0L (but they're crap anyway). HnM- did you have some other problem with your previous engine that caused you to think it needed rebuilding? could it have been much simpler to fix? i am interested in turboing a 2.8 as i'm sure they will be much cheaper to run than the 4.2- although crusher your 4.2 sounds quite acceptable on fuel (about 22 miles per gallon) for a car that size- would a GQ be a better option than a 60 series? i hear GQs are real tough (made from light truck components) but they rattle like a blender full of ball bearings. Could someone please tell me which gets better fuel economy- turbo or NA? (I'm assuming it's NA - i've heard that turboing an engine makes it more fuel efficient, but i suppose that would be relative to the increase in power). a naturally aspirated GQ may be a good option for now.

[rowand]

sorry crusher i thought u had a GQ not a GU- GU a bit out of my price range :)
is that issue of 4WD monthly avail. online somewhere? how would i get hold of it?

[mrZ]

welcome to the forum, go for a gq, they seem like a solid truck 8)

[qatkins]

My Mav(read GQ) doesn't have any problems on sand but being a 4.2 petrol it certainly knows how to drink. As for the rattling well it may always be there but you won't lose anything of them either as they are built like the proverbial brick ?house.

My 91 cost just over $10large with alloy bar/lights, roof racks, tint and 33s 192000kms :)

[Twisty]

4Runners RULE!! ;D

Welcome to the forum...I love my V6 4Runners and if fuel consumption isn't a problem for you, I'd pick one of them over the 2.8.

Enjoy the forum.

[rowand]

hey guys- just went and test drove a 2.8 4runner and a 90 model GQ- the 4 runner was much nicer but was 3Gs more. Twisty what sort of fuel consumption figures wiould i get out of a stock V6 4runner? better or worse than a GQ? and you guys are saying definitely an older GQ over a 60 series?

[crusher]

Try Express Publications on 1800801647 you need issue No 69



sorry crusher i thought u had a GQ not a GU- GU a bit out of my price range :)
is that issue of 4WD monthly avail. online somewhere? how would i get hold of it?

[Twisty]

hey guys- just went and test drove a 2.8 4runner and a 90 model GQ- the 4 runner was much nicer but was 3Gs more. Twisty what sort of fuel consumption figures wiould i get out of a stock V6 4runner? better or worse than a GQ? and you guys are saying definitely an older GQ over a 60 series?


I get around 350kms out of 60 litres......best I have ever got was just over 400.....

[Grimsey]

i have a 2.8 4runner and it is a top truck. i think they go a bit better than a hilux because they have different diff ratios, mine revs at a bit under 2500rpm at 100km, where as a mates hilux is a bit under 3000rpm at 100km. i have had the injector pump wound out a bit and that helps with power a bit to. i get around 10L / 100km and towing a tandem trailer around 16L / 100km. i would definatly buy a 4runner befour a 60 series because for driving on the black top they handle allot better and are much smoother. the v6 go well but if something gose wrong your up for big bucks.

[rowand]

hey 4runner- that's very interesting about the diff ratios- i would like a solid front axle but i'm still leaning towards the 4runner simply for the fuel consumption- do you take your 2.8 offroad much? have you found it lacking in any way? i'm told that they would respond well to supercharging- ever looked into it? is there anything specific to this model that i should look out for when buying? so many questions!!! (Again) thanks for the info by the way

[Grimsey]

Im not a 100% percent sure on the diff ratios but my 4runner definatly revs lower at 100km than a mates hilux. i take it off road once a month or so and there is only a few times i wish i have had more power. i dont know how a supercharger would go on a 2.8 dsl but it would work ok on the 4 and v6 petrols. i have never really had a problem with the IFS off road but i never really push is to hard.

[Grimsey]

By the way dont buy a v6 that has been put on gas. Because Most late model toyota's dont like running on it so the maintence outways the fuel savings.

[baby_troupe]

thanks guys this is all really helpful stuff- yes it is the 2.4 turbo surfs that crack heads (called the '2LT' engine to be precise) they don't come in a 2.8 but the really new ones come in a 3.0L (but they're crap anyway). HnM- did you have some other problem with your previous engine that caused you to think it needed rebuilding? could it have been much simpler to fix? i am interested in turboing a 2.8 as i'm sure they will be much cheaper to run than the 4.2- although crusher your 4.2 sounds quite acceptable on fuel (about 22 miles per gallon) for a car that size- would a GQ be a better option than a 60 series? i hear GQs are real tough (made from light truck components) but they rattle like a blender full of ball bearings. Could someone please tell me which gets better fuel economy- turbo or NA? (I'm assuming it's NA - i've heard that turboing an engine makes it more fuel efficient, but i suppose that would be relative to the increase in power). a naturally aspirated GQ may be a good option for now.

Welcome aboard Rowand

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/phpBB2/images/smiles/new_newbie.gif

I have heard of many people on the Surf Forum experiencing problems with cracked heads on their 2LTE engines.
I have also seen a few common things as well (apart from the fact they are the same type of engine)
Most I have heard of are in cheaper imported vehicles.
Generally people who pay less for vehicles do so because that is what can afford & with that, servicing is often not as meticulous as it could be.
When these vehicles come to Australia, we generally do not know their history, and people do not have them checked out properly to sdee if the coolant is flowing correctly thru the cooling system.

Most head cracking is caused by over heating.
Most Overheating problems are caused by problems with the cooling system.


I have a 2LTE in mine & when I bought it, I had problems with it running too hot.
I did the usual cheap options of adding extra oil to the viscous fan (as recommended by Toyota) & getting the cooling system flushed, but found very little change.
I had it checked & the radiator core was blocked up. I had it recored
That fixed the problem.
Total cost was <$200.... A new head is plenty more than that & you will find the original problem of running hot would still be there.

[Grimsey]

Before i brought my 4runner i test drove a 2.4 turbo auto surf and it felt no quicker than the 2.8 so i brought the 2.8 because it is Aust delivered. So i knew i would have no problems getting parts and getting it insured. And as baby troup said the surfs do blow head gaskets. i spoke to my local toyota dealer about them and they said they have replaced 4 motors in surfs and have only ever repuilt one 2.8. So if you want realiability i would be going with 2.8 4runner. i have had a bit of trouble with my 4runner getting hot but it never to hot enough to do damage. And both times it was in extream conditions. The fist time was a hot summer day towing a 19 foot ski boat up a hill. and the other time was in Adelaide in feb when the temp got to 50 deg and i was ideling at traffic lights.

[muztech]

If your only willing to pay $15ooo what do you think of a diesel gq patrol they go awsome and heaps around with a great choice of cars only used to drive the kids to school. let us know what uve been lookin at l8ly